Watching people making poor car choices

[derotam]

Not wading into the (—-)show above but wanted to touch on this .... I haven’t been keeping up, but what’s the latest with the solar shingles? That, to me, should be the game-changer. That’s where I think Tesla’s advantage could be. Otherwise, I’m in agreement. Their current solar products are nothing interesting. Powerwall, somewhat moreso. But the shingles could change matters altogether.

Tesla hasn't been buying much from Panasonic at the Buffalo factory due to market conditions in the US for solar. Personally I don't think much is going to happen with solar in general(at least on the residential consumer side) until the panel efficiencies make a jump.

I am all for residential solar(I have panels on my roof though I didn't pay for them, previous owner put them on), but I think battery backup is a better residential solution right now until the panel efficiencies get high enough.

 

[ammulder]

I haven’t been keeping up, but what’s the latest with the solar shingles? That, to me, should be the game-changer. That’s where I think Tesla’s advantage could be. Otherwise, I’m in agreement. Their current solar products are nothing interesting. Powerwall, somewhat moreso. But the shingles could change matters altogether.

Last time I ran their calculator, it ranged from like $30k-$90k depending on % of solar tiles. If anything, our electric usage will go up a bit (baseline predated EVs), and our summer usage is way above average. So I’m not clear on exactly what generation level we want to acquire (and whether that involves more than one Powerwall), but if you figure somewhere in the middle, it would be a really long payoff (20-30 years). I’m willing to mine bitcoin in the basement with excess power, but the value of that is pretty hard to predict as well.

Our roof is almost 20, and if it needed to be replaced anyway the economics would be a bit better. But if you figure it should go 30 years, we’re not there yet. As much as I adore the idea of the solar roof, the numbers haven’t reached out and grabbed me.

 

[dmurphy]

Last time I ran their calculator, it ranged from like $30k-$90k depending on % of solar tiles. If anything, our electric usage will go up a bit (baseline predated EVs), and our summer usage is way above average. So I’m not clear on exactly what generation level we want to acquire (and whether that involves more than one Powerwall), but if you figure somewhere in the middle, it would be a really long payoff (20-30 years). I’m willing to mine bitcoin in the basement with excess power, but the value of that is pretty hard to predict as well.

Our roof is almost 20, and if it needed to be replaced anyway the economics would be a bit better. But if you figure it should go 30 years, we’re not there yet. As much as I adore the idea of the solar roof, the numbers haven’t reached out and grabbed me.

We're in a very similar situation. Our summer usage is way above average (A/C, inground pool w/ two pumps, etc.) - to the point where one powerwall would certainly be out of the question, and not sure if two would cut it either, if I want to keep the house cool during the summer.

The other big challenge is that our roof is only 2 years old. We did a full (and I do mean full -- rafters, decking, ridge & soffit ventilation, crickets, everything) rebuild 2 years ago. The previous roof was 40 years old (two layers of shingles) and did not age well. So, I'd completely lose that investment by using solar shingles, and to be honest -- I don't even want to put panels up at this point; the idea of penetrations on a brand new roof just seems like a bad idea to me.

I'm hoping the economics of the solar shingles drop as it reaches scale. Ideally, it'd become a gold standard for new home builds, which would drive the volume needed to get costs down for retrofits. At least that'd be how I see an ideal world ...

 

[ammulder]

I suspect in some sense we’d do better to get solar for something like 3/4 of the summer usage. Could save a ton on the shingles, even if we still had to pay the utility a bit for excess power over the summer. I wish we could get a software-locked roof where they install more solar shingles than we bought, and we could incrementally add capacity later!

Basically, the calculators are too simplistic. I need to put in a full year of utility bills and run the numbers on the long-term cost and break-even for varying solar %s and EV mileage and see where we come out. But maybe I also need Tesla to look more closely at our roof than a dated satellite photo to tell us what the actual max % of solar coverage is? I assume some facings will be great, some good, some never cost-effective? Might need some trees trimmed to avoid interference?

 

[ninpb]

-- I don't even want to put panels up at this point; the idea of penetrations on a brand new roof just seems like a bad idea to me.
...

I and probably most solar purchasers thought the opposite. Better to put panels up on a new roof rather then having to temporarily take them off when it's time for a new roof.

A legitimate solar company should guarantee their work for roof leeks.

 

[dmurphy]

I and probably most solar purchasers thought the opposite. Better to put panels up on a new roof rather then having to temporarily take them off when it's time for a new roof.

A legitimate solar company should guarantee their work for roof leeks.

True enough about warranties and such... I'm likely conditioned to having seen enough poor DirecTV and Dish Network installs through the years, that the idea of bolting through brand new shingles gives me the creeps.

Your point about not having to take it off later, though, makes all the sense in the world!

 

[MXWing]

Not wading into the (—-)show above but wanted to touch on this .... I haven’t been keeping up, but what’s the latest with the solar shingles? That, to me, should be the game-changer. That’s where I think Tesla’s advantage could be. Otherwise, I’m in agreement. Their current solar products are nothing interesting. Powerwall, somewhat moreso. But the shingles could change matters altogether.

There is no *sugar* show. Someone is complete mental and needed to be put in their place.

Solar shingles are cool AF but not very practical. Expensive and the same money is better spent towards riding in a Tesla.

It has two major issues that I see:

1.) Cost. Elon can come up with all sorts of math on how much it will pay off in 50 years but people can't invest in projects with that kind of payback.

2.) Makes no sense to rip up new roofs.

Tesla's best angle is to install solar shingles as part of new home construction.

 

[ElectricLee]

Tesla's best angle is to install solar shingles as part of new home construction.

Yes, if a new home builders like KB, Toll Brothers, DR Horton, etc should get this ASAP and save the planet. Add Powerwalls to the build and space planning. Design roofs that face the sun in the master plans for a home build out.

 

[MXWing]

Last time I ran their calculator, it ranged from like $30k-$90k depending on % of solar tiles. If anything, our electric usage will go up a bit (baseline predated EVs), and our summer usage is way above average. So I’m not clear on exactly what generation level we want to acquire (and whether that involves more than one Powerwall), but if you figure somewhere in the middle, it would be a really long payoff (20-30 years). I’m willing to mine bitcoin in the basement with excess power, but the value of that is pretty hard to predict as well.

Our roof is almost 20, and if it needed to be replaced anyway the economics would be a bit better. But if you figure it should go 30 years, we’re not there yet. As much as I adore the idea of the solar roof, the numbers haven’t reached out and grabbed me.

There's no math that makes sense to install solar shingles unless its going to be a multi generational home.

It's main appeal is like having a giant swinging peen on your roof for the entire neighborhood to see.

10 years is a long time however. It might be worth it to install a traditional solar now and evaluate the economics of solar tiles when its time to actually replace the roof.

We're in a very similar situation. Our summer usage is way above average (A/C, inground pool w/ two pumps, etc.) - to the point where one powerwall would certainly be out of the question, and not sure if two would cut it either, if I want to keep the house cool during the summer.

The other big challenge is that our roof is only 2 years old. We did a full (and I do mean full -- rafters, decking, ridge & soffit ventilation, crickets, everything) rebuild 2 years ago. The previous roof was 40 years old (two layers of shingles) and did not age well. So, I'd completely lose that investment by using solar shingles, and to be honest -- I don't even want to put panels up at this point; the idea of penetrations on a brand new roof just seems like a bad idea to me.

Have you ever looked at whole house fans to see if they would work for your situation? They work well for us to keep the house cool while not needing to run two ac units.

Solar Shingles are out of the question but I would not hesitate to throw solar panels. It's the best time to do it honestly. Last thing you want is your solar install to outlive your roof.

As mentioned, solar companies worth their weight will warranty your roof. They have even less excuse if your roof is new.

I don’t know this for a fact but I would conjecture that DTV installers would be of lower grade than solar installers in general and solar installers work in teams.

 

[xfea]

Wait.....I thought this was a Tesla forum.....how many......you tell me Leonardo.
Cobalt is also used in the computer you used to type your post....just saying. Not to mention your recycling this crap from your other posts....like word for word.
snippiness
Cobalt is also found in Australia, Canada, Zambia and Brazil. Panasonic and Tesla are also working towards producing cobalt free batteries.
Just so you know coal isn't the only way to produce electricity....

Yes - a TESLA forum - and the use of Blood Cobalt.
All sorts of wondrous hydrocarbons are use to make electrons for your TESLA - Natural gas, coal, crude.....
The fact that YOU displace those pollutants into areas that are poor and away from your 'hood is NOT virtuous.
Sounds entitled and arrogant and ignorant -

 

[dmurphy]

Yes - a TESLA forum - and the use of Blood Cobalt.
All sorts of wondrous hydrocarbons are use to make electrons for your TESLA - Natural gas, coal, crude.....
The fact that YOU displace those pollutants into areas that are poor and away from your 'hood is NOT virtuous.
Sounds entitled and arrogant and ignorant -

Stop reading the so-called news headlines ... they’re filling you with propaganda.

The “long tailpipe” thing has been debunked over and over and over and over again. Tired of the BS.

That said ... Cobalt mining is a concern. But you knew that Tesla has reduced its cobalt content by 60%, on its way to phasing it out completely, right? I’m sure you knew that. The so-called “news” headlines would never mislead you.

Tesla Model 3 batteries have 75% less cobalt than Volkswagen's current cells

 

[Kilotango74]

Yes - a TESLA forum - and the use of Blood Cobalt.
All sorts of wondrous hydrocarbons are use to make electrons for your TESLA - Natural gas, coal, crude.....
The fact that YOU displace those pollutants into areas that are poor and away from your 'hood is NOT virtuous.
Sounds entitled and arrogant and ignorant -

. What ever. Your gas powered suv produces way more hydro carbons than the electricity needed to charge my ev. Especially since I have a solar/ battery system linked to my charger. Go peddle your BS somewhere else

 

[Kilotango74]

Yeah your 13 City/ 18 Hwy Lexus RX. You dinosaur killer!!! What did they ever do to you.