Waymo

[Daniel in SD]

No - only SD maps

Can they be in electronic format or does the computer have to flip through the pages of a Thomas Guide like a human?
I think it's acceptable to just have jpegs of the pages of the Thomas Guide to save on hardware costs.

 

[EVNow]

Can they be in electronic format or does the computer have to flip through the pages of a Thomas Guide like a human?
I think it's acceptable to just have jpegs of the pages of the Thomas Guide to save on hardware costs.

They can be digital to avoid using one more sensor

Interestingly, Elon's whole journey started with free maps they got from yellow pages (?). They used that to start the first website that could give you navigation based on starting & ending points (zip2.com).

 

[diplomat33]

A true self-driving car does not require HD-Maps.

That is your opinion. There is nothing in the technical definition of autonomous driving that says it must use or must not use HD maps.

 

[EVNow]

That is your opinion. There is nothing in the technical definition of autonomous driving that says it must use or must not use HD maps.

Strawman.

Duh .... I never said the "technical definition" calls for use of HD Maps.

 

[enemji]

Without a map how would you even tell the car where to go?

That is not the mapping in discussion. That is all available via many providers eg google, Nokia(Here), mapquest, TomTom, etc

 

[Daniel in SD]

That is not the mapping in discussion. That is all available via many providers eg google, Nokia(Here), mapquest, TomTom, etc

There are many providers for HD maps (including TomTom HD map | TomTom).

 

[enemji]

But Waymo needs LIDAR mapping on all roads it needs to travel.

 

[diplomat33]

But Waymo needs LIDAR mapping on all roads it needs to travel.

No, Waymo does not "need" lidar mapping in order to travel on a road. Waymo has cameras, lidar and radar sensors that handle all the perception for driving. So, Waymo can drive without lidar maps. Waymo uses lidar mapping as a prior because it adds safety. Here is a direct quote from Waymo's Head of Research at the Scale AI Conference 7 months ago where he explains the purpose of HD maps:

We also use high definition maps as a prior, not as an immutable truth. Maps are a great safety feature because they let us anticipate what happens in the occluded part of the scene. furthermore, the map is a dynamic entity. It is a mechanism where our fleet can share observations between vehicles, in some cases in real-time for features they are likely to anticipate. Maps are especially important when parts of the scene are occluded either by vehicles in front of you, by a hill or the intersection geometry and it is quite helpful to know what to anticipate there.

Here is the full presentation. I strongly recommend you watch it. It will teach you a lot about how Waymo does autonomous driving.

 

[enemji]

…To cover an entire State, Waymo would have to spend a lot of resources in mapping and testing for very little return since most areas are not populated enough and don't need a robotaxi. …

Make up your mind. One post you say it “needs”, and then when challenged you bring up what I already stated ie a real self driving car does not need a map. It is useful but not needed.

Thank you agreeing with me, albeit in a roundabout manner.

 

[enemji]

A good video here… Need to see more like these

 

[Daniel in SD]

A good video here… Need to see more like these

How many would we need to see to verify greater than human safety? More than you could watch in a lifetime.

 

[diplomat33]

A good video here… Need to see more like these

These videos are misleading. For one, FSD Beta is L2 and requires a human driver. Waymo Driver is L4 and does not require a human driver. So it is apples and oranges. It is comparing two fundamentally different systems. Second, a video comparing 1 or 2 trips is not a valid sample. It is too small a sample to really show what both systems can do. We do know Waymo can handle all driving in Chandler reliably since they removed the safety driver.

Make up your mind. One post you say it “needs”, and then when challenged you bring up what I already stated ie a real self driving car does not need a map. It is useful but not needed.

Thank you agreeing with me, albeit in a roundabout manner.

Stop gaslighting. I did not say that Waymo needs to map. But Waymo's M.O is to map and do a lot of safety tests before deploying. The other poster asked about Waymo deploying robotaxis in an entire State. That would mean a lot of resources in mapping and testing. I said that I don't think it would be worth it since I think Waymo could get more "bang for their buck" by offering a more profitable smaller ride-hailing service in a major city instead.

 

[MP3Mike]

We do know Waymo can handle all driving in Chandler reliably since they removed the safety driver.

As long as it doesn't rain and their route doesn't run into construction/cones.

 

[Daniel in SD]

As long as it doesn't rain and their route doesn't run into construction/cones.

They also crash occasionally. It's not realistic to expect 100% reliability or to expect the failure modes to mirror human drivers.

 

[diplomat33]

As long as it doesn't rain and their route doesn't run into construction/cones.

That was the 4th Gen. Waymo says the 5th Gen is a huge leap forward in capability and can handle rain and construction/cones much better. They showed some examples of the 5th Gen reliably handling construction/cones. We don't have direct evidence of it handling rain yet. But once we start getting some videos of the driverless rides in the 5th Gen, I think we will see it can handle rain and construction/cones just fine.

 

[MP3Mike]

That was the 4th Gen. Waymo says the 5th Gen is a huge leap forward in capability and can handle rain and construction/cones much better. They showed some examples of the 5th Gen reliably handling construction/cones. We don't have direct evidence of it handling rain yet. But once we start getting some videos of the driverless rides in the 5th Gen, I think we will see it can handle rain and construction/cones just fine.

But you were talking about Chandler, and Waymo has said they are sticking with the 4th Gen vehicles there haven't they? I think you just need to change the "all" to "most" and it would be accurate.

 

[diplomat33]

But you were talking about Chandler, and Waymo has said they are sticking with the 4th Gen vehicles there haven't they?

Yes, Dolgov said that they plan to keep using the Pacifica and have no plans to retrofit the Chrysler Pacifica with the 5th Gen hardware. But that does not mean that Waymo won't also deploy the I-Pace with the 5th Gen in Chandler. They could run both the Pacifica and the I-Pace in Chandler. I do think that as Waymo ramps up the 5th Gen, the Pacifica will become a very small part of the fleet.

I think you just need to change the "all" to "most" and it would be accurate.

What "all"? I don't see any "all" in my post.

 

[MP3Mike]

What "all"? I don't see any "all" in my post.

This one:

We do know Waymo can handle all driving in Chandler reliably since they removed the safety driver.

 

[Daniel in SD]

This one:

They handle all the driverless driving that they do reliably (enough).
Got to be super precise around here!

 

[diplomat33]

This one:

It can handle all driving in its ODD. I forgot to specify ODD but that should be implied since we are talking about L4.