Welcome Break services starting to do their own chargers?

[NorfolkMustard]

Found in planning permission here, 6 of them to be placed next to the existing 2 Ecotricity chargers at South Mimms

21/0911/FUL | Installation of 6 x Electric Vehicle (EV) charging points to include 6 x dedicated EV parking bays and 6 x upright charging units to service each bay. |

www6.hertsmere.gov.uk

 

[imstitch]

The less time spent at a welcome break the better...

 

[Mr Miserable]

I'm glad to see the EV charging infrastructure is expanding with ultra fast chargers but I dread to see how much they think the market will withstand when it comes to their pricing. I have never ever bought fuel at their services because of their pricing and I'm glad that as a Tesla owner I am not going to be held to ransom by them in the future either.

 

[pgkevet]

I'm glad to see the EV charging infrastructure is expanding with ultra fast chargers but I dread to see how much they think the market will withstand when it comes to their pricing. I have never ever bought fuel at their services because of their pricing and I'm glad that as a Tesla owner I am not going to be held to ransom by them in the future either.

I'm sure they'll find a way of upping Tesla's rent so they put up their charges too,,,
Cynical forecasts of parity across chargers at 39p/KWH and then gov sticks a tax on top...

 

[Mrklaw]

There’s a crossover point where I’d be willing to pay more for the convenience of being able to stop at any MSA and have a good chance of a fast charge, rather than some ANPR hotel car park a 10 minute detour off the motorway.

so will this be in addition to the ecotrixity upgrades or instead of? Would prefer less fragmentation at MSAs

 

[Jason71]

If they aren't doing an app and its just contactless ( and why not) then there is not a lot to a "charging network" so there is no reason they could not do it them selves though they may be welcome break branded but managed/serviced by an existing third party network.
Or they might be getting the planning and then let networks bid for the slots so the drawing is just for illustration.
If they are doing their own you can assume they will not be cheap!

 

[Jason71]

I'm sure they'll find a way of upping Tesla's rent so they put up their charges too,,,
Cynical forecasts of parity across chargers at 39p/KWH and then gov sticks a tax on top...

I can't see a tax on public charging (beyond the existing VAT on electrons) being the way forward since it is a tax on people without off street parking which is essentially a tax on the poor. Its already the case that those with off street can pay 5p per kw and those without have to pay 25p+. Extra tax would just make that worse. Pence per mile is the future of vehicle tax with a fuel type / efficiency factor thrown in for good measure probably

 

[pgkevet]

I can't see a tax on public charging (beyond the existing VAT on electrons) being the way forward since it is a tax on people without off street parking which is essentially a tax on the poor. Its already the case that those with off street can pay 5p per kw and those without have to pay 25p+. Extra tax would just make that worse. Pence per mile is the future of vehicle tax with a fuel type / efficiency factor thrown in for good measure probably

Good God, man. The poor shouldn't have cars, If they have cars they aren't poor enough. Someone has to use public transport to create jobs!

 

[NewbieT]

If they aren't doing an app and its just contactless ( and why not) then there is not a lot to a "charging network" so there is no reason they could not do it them selves though they may be welcome break branded but managed/serviced by an existing third party network.
Or they might be getting the planning and then let networks bid for the slots so the drawing is just for illustration.
If they are doing their own you can assume they will not be cheap!

^^^It’s a none / trivial issue. Plenty of service providers to white label the payment handling/app part for you. Data sharing etc is going to be a requirement and the easiest way is have someone provide the service for you if it’s not your main business.

The government still seem to be hoping that competition will manage prices…not convinced myself. Charge point operators mostly have a monopoly and it will be 5 or 10 years before we might see that happening. In the meantime the market suits itself in establishing an artificially high price whose comparator is petrol. There is also this concept of a roaming account which would make a compelling solution if the ‘clubs’ are big enough to have negotiating power. Not enough charge points to make this work to bring down prices yet.

 

[Dunstan]

...
The government still seem to be hoping that competition will manage prices…not convinced myself. Charge point operators mostly have a monopoly and it will be 5 or 10 years before we might see that happening. In the meantime the market suits itself in establishing an artificially high price whose comparator is petrol.

I think there's a place for a two track approach:

1. Unregulated wild west "competitive" charging as now
2. Government subsidised public charging, where the subsidy comes with obligations on price and availability and integration

Just now we're in a build-out phase. I remember during the late 1980s and into the 90s when cable was being laid to most houses in urban Britain - there were a lot of suppliers, in Rugby we were kitted out by Telecential. Over time they were consolidated down to a couple of operators until they were brought together as Virgin Media (allowed monopoly as there is still competition from Sky/Terrestrial/BT).

I'm going to write to my MP and suggest how government could facilitate (2).

 

[Jason71]

I think there's a place for a two track approach:

1. Unregulated wild west "competitive" charging as now
2. Government subsidised public charging, where the subsidy comes with obligations on price and availability and integration

Just now we're in a build-out phase. I remember during the late 1980s and into the 90s when cable was being laid to most houses in urban Britain - there were a lot of suppliers, in Rugby we were kitted out by Telecential. Over time they were consolidated down to a couple of operators until they were brought together as Virgin Media (allowed monopoly as there is still competition from Sky/Terrestrial/BT).

I'm going to write to my MP and suggest how government could facilitate (2).

its an interesting question which is better use of public money. subsidising the cars or subsidising the charging. The number of chargers does seem to be going up rapidly without too much subsidy but most buyers are currently affluent, probably have off street park and or are driving company cars so the cost of public charging is not a deal breaker and neither is Volume to some extent. I have supercharged about 4 times in 18 months. Would have been a bit higher if not for the pandemic but not much and that would have been over 30K miles not the 13K I have actually done.
Volume of chargers becomes a bigger problem. as the cost of the cars drops, new and more in the second hand market we may will get to a point where the lack/cost of public charging becomes the barrier to adoption rather than vehicle price because at anything more than about 30p/kwh an EV starts to potentially cost more to fuel than a small efficient diesel.

 

[Dunstan]

The number of chargers does seem to be going up rapidly without too much subsidy but most buyers are currently affluent, probably have off street park and or are driving company cars so the cost of public charging is not a deal breaker and neither is Volume to some extent. I have supercharged about 4 times in 18 months.

My son drives a Leaf. For him any non-local journey needs significant planning, with Plan B and Plan C for when chargers are occupied or unserviceable. The ONLY reason I have an EV on order is because my budget just stretches to a M3, giving access to the SuC network. If government can facilitate an open access equivalent, where operators are rewarded for live occupancy information and high availability, it will make non-local journeys in non-Tesla EVs MUCH more predictable.

You're right that without the majority being home/work low cost charging the economics are different. Just as, when I was growing up, you wouldn't pay phone box rates unless out and about.

 

[HenryT]

Presumably, if these new chargers are going to be sited next to the Ecotricity ones, there's little point in making them more expensive?

 

[Dilly]

Let’s hope charging planning, infrastructure and provision fares better than broadband.

 

[Jason71]

Presumably, if these new chargers are going to be sited next to the Ecotricity ones, there's little point in making them more expensive?

Maybe they could have surge pricing based on whether the Ecotricity one are working?

 

[Mr Miserable]

Maybe they could have surge pricing based on whether the Ecotricity one are working?

It would be easier and less work involved to discount if the Ecotricity one is working!