Went the other way (track car)

[stickman]

I know a number of folks came from M3s (and the like) to their Model 3. I went backwards I (we) still have the P3D+ but I bought a dedicated track car, an E46 M3. It's interesting to compare the two on the track. The biggest takeaway for me is that with the same R compound tires on same sized wheels and with similar weight/HP ratios, I was within a second or 2, in the Tesla on my second trackday ever, of what I've done in the heavily modified BMW. The P3D+ is just easier to go fast in, at least for my novice level skills. The crazy amount of torque available coming out of turns, and the excellent track mode VSC/TC that lets us use it is brilliant. I will say I feel way more comfortable going fast in the M3, partly because of the roll bar/harness/race seat, and partly because i could buy 3 of them for what the Model 3 cost, and if I mess it up I won't be messing up anyone's DD. Oh and being able to do full sessions for a whole day is pretty great.
I salute MasterC17 and the others who go all out in their Model 3s but for me it's fun not having to compromise. Oh and that's the other standout thing, the Model 3 is still a wonderful DD street car, whereas the M3 requires lots of compromise on the street. Stiff, noisy, smelly, jerky etc.
Oh and the M3 is way prettier.

 

[wdskuk]

Beautiful car. I got the F80 M3 and the P3D+. Both cars have their advantages. But I agree that the Model 3 is so much easier to accelerate with the instant torque. The M3 takes a bit until the twin turbos kicks in.

 

[iamroy]

Awesome! I've thought about doing this with a C5Z06. I used to track one regularly and miss it a lot!

Question for those that track your model 3's, are there chargers at your track? How much track time do you get before you have to recharge?

Here's my old whip. I loved this car!

and my bike! Never had enough track time on this thing to get any good, but it was a blast to go out.

 

[stickman]

hmm. could have sworn I put this in driving dynamics..mods if it's ok can this go there? Makes more sense than here..

 

[jjrandorin]

hmm. could have sworn I put this in driving dynamics..mods if it's ok can this go there? Makes more sense than here..

Try reporting your own post and requesting to move it to driving dynamics?

 

[stickman]

Try reporting your own post and requesting to move it to driving dynamics?

thanks

 

[m3-ricardo]

E46 and E36 M3 are both classic M3's IMO .. not the fastest m3's anymore . but they have a soft spot in my book since that was when i was into M cars...

i might still buy a used E46 soon.

 

[SD_Engnr]

I've already modded the heck out of my P3D+ for use on the track, and it's definitely enjoyable, but I'm wondering if I should just "play it safe" and go with something that's cheaper to fix, and has more parts available... An M3 sounds like a fun option.

Mind sharing the rough cost of entry?

 

[MasterC17]

I'll bite. I (still) own an E46 M3 Track car. I spent ~$40,000 in modifications on it to compete in NASA's GTS-3 class (car is stripped and caged). It's slightly faster on track than the Model 3, despite having a notably better power to weight ratio. My total investment in the car is about $55,000; roughly what the Model 3 is worth. However, the Model 3 has a warranty, and the only consumables are pads and tires. The BMW on the other hand needs oil changes, valve adjustments, gaskets (valve cover, oil pan, etc), differential and transmission fluid flushes, etc, etc.

Long story short, I'm spending considerably less on maintenance driving the Model 3 than I did driving the M3. Track Insurance cost is roughly the same for both, so if I smash up one or the other it's the same cost and hassle. Cost of entry is the same regardless of what you're driving.

The one downside to the Tesla is charging. As long as the Chademo at VIR is working this isn't a problem, but on AC 240V it is annoying having to cut sessions short. Though, it saves consumables so there is a trade-off there. Hopefully, tracks take notice and start building infrastructure for EV's, or Tesla takes notice and starts building Superchargers at tracks.

The biggest benefit of them all however is that I can drive my Tesla home. I don't need to trailer it (requiring a tow vehicle and a trailer), I can take it out on the weekends without annoying everyone within a 5-mile radius, I can take it out to dinner, I can drive around with my wife and child in the car, and it doesn't drive me crazy on the street. To me, practically on the street is important. It didn't use to be, but it is as I get older.

 

[HelloThere]

I came from BMW E90 M3 6spd, now a P3D owner. I feel more comfortable taking turns in the BMW. It was a beautiful timeless car with nice a exhaust note. Also I had my share of SV650(s) <- Pun there, along with a Ducati Monster. I didnt know how common that some of us had similar past vehicles.

 

[HelloThere]

I'm currently looking for a NB Miata to fill in the novelty toy car.

 

[Kilotango74]

I love the E46 M3. Sitting in one at a Seattle auto show began my love of BMW. I’ve owned 5 since then and will still have my X5 35D until it needs replaced. The past 7 weeks since I placed my M3P order has had me on BMW’s certified presented page more than once looking at F80’s.

 

[kbecks13]

I've already modded the heck out of my P3D+ for use on the track, and it's definitely enjoyable, but I'm wondering if I should just "play it safe" and go with something that's cheaper to fix, and has more parts available... An M3 sounds like a fun option.

Get out of my heaadddd lol i've also thought about this quite a bit, looked at things like S2000 or the BRZ but always kept stumbling onto engine and reliability problems from track use. I too am curious about some rough pricing for getting into this, though in CA a track car almost certainly means needing to trailer it due to emissions laws.

 

[stickman]

I'll bite. I (still) own an E46 M3 Track car. I spent ~$40,000 in modifications on it to compete in NASA's GTS-3 class (car is stripped and caged). It's slightly faster on track than the Model 3, despite having a notably better power to weight ratio. My total investment in the car is about $55,000; roughly what the Model 3 is worth. However, the Model 3 has a warranty, and the only consumables are pads and tires. The BMW on the other hand needs oil changes, valve adjustments, gaskets (valve cover, oil pan, etc), differential and transmission fluid flushes, etc, etc.

Long story short, I'm spending considerably less on maintenance driving the Model 3 than I did driving the M3. Track Insurance cost is roughly the same for both, so if I smash up one or the other it's the same cost and hassle. Cost of entry is the same regardless of what you're driving.

The one downside to the Tesla is charging. As long as the Chademo at VIR is working this isn't a problem, but on AC 240V it is annoying having to cut sessions short. Though, it saves consumables so there is a trade-off there. Hopefully, tracks take notice and start building infrastructure for EV's, or Tesla takes notice and starts building Superchargers at tracks.

The biggest benefit of them all however is that I can drive my Tesla home. I don't need to trailer it (requiring a tow vehicle and a trailer), I can take it out on the weekends without annoying everyone within a 5-mile radius, I can take it out to dinner, I can drive around with my wife and child in the car, and it doesn't drive me crazy on the street. To me, practically on the street is important. It didn't use to be, but it is as I get older.

I was wondering if you still had yours (saw you on the m3forum when I joined), and what your times were like in the model 3 vs M3 I agree with a lot of your points in favor of tracking the tesla. And maintenance costs are a thing, definitely.

Here's hoping they put in superchargers at more tracks.

 

[stickman]

I've already modded the heck out of my P3D+ for use on the track, and it's definitely enjoyable, but I'm wondering if I should just "play it safe" and go with something that's cheaper to fix, and has more parts available... An M3 sounds like a fun option.

Mind sharing the rough cost of entry?

So I got pretty lucky. I started looking for dedicated track cars and pretty quickly narrowed it down to an e46 m3. There were a couple of track prepped (to one degree or another) locally that I saw but missed out on because I hadn't really decided if I was going to go that way. I was talking with my good friend and he said that our mutual friend from back in the motorcycle track days had one and I should check his out. He had just bought the car from an independent BMW repair place- it was the shop owner's and kind of a show off car. So most of the mods I wanted to do were done, although some were just parts he threw at it. Like the not great HR coilovers it came with. But the known failure/problem areas on these cars have all been addressed, you could eat off the engine, and it's had excellent maintenance.

Long story short, I got it for $20K. Getting a stock one and building it to this level would require more like $40-45K (not including the supercharger, which most people wouldn't recommend for the track anyway). I did promptly replace the rod bearings (known weak point) and just put Ohlin's suspension on it, so yeah I'm more like $30K into it at this point.

I think e46 M3s are starting to get expensive, at least that's what folks on the forums seem to think.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Used, non-competitive track cars are great bargains. Because they mostly cannot be used for anything but fun track days they sell for cheap. While still very expensive to maintain, the initial cost is very low. Most do not street drive them, so you seen them coming on trailers for track days. Roll cages make them very unsafe for an un helmeted driver, and become illegal for most street driving.

M3s are some of the most fun track modified cars out there...enjoy yours.

 

[FlyNavy01]

Interesting perspective. I was the opposite, I got my P3D so I could have the ultimate trackable/DD combo without having to make many compromises or need 2 separate cars to pay for and insure. I can go from street to track with only a quick wheel/tire swap in my garage.

Regen makes it so you can run aggressive pads all the time with little worry about dust and noise. No exhaust means you don't have to worry about an embarrassingly loud and uncomfortable track car on the street. Almost no maintenance means less time wrenching and more time driving. Cost to track a Tesla is absurdly low after the modifications are installed.

If I were to have a dedicated track car, I think the only option for me would be a Miata. Cheap, fun as hell, and excellent driving dynamics. BMW's are just too unreliable for me and a pain to work on. Having said that... if the Model 3 didn't exist I'd be driving an M2 Competition right now.

 

[stickman]

Interesting perspective. I was the opposite, I got my P3D so I could have the ultimate trackable/DD combo without having to make many compromises or need 2 separate cars to pay for and insure. I can go from street to track with only a quick wheel/tire swap in my garage.

Regen makes it so you can run aggressive pads all the time with little worry about dust and noise. No exhaust means you don't have to worry about an embarrassingly loud and uncomfortable track car on the street. Almost no maintenance means less time wrenching and more time driving. Cost to track a Tesla is absurdly low after the modifications are installed.

If I were to have a dedicated track car, I think the only option for me would be a Miata. Cheap, fun as hell, and excellent driving dynamics. BMW's are just too unreliable for me and a pain to work on. Having said that... if the Model 3 didn't exist I'd be driving an M2 Competition right now.

hah you're right about regen and brake pads. The M3 had some garbage 'street performance' pads on the BBK (which is just 996 calipers and ZCP rotors) on my car, and I swapped them for real race pads (carbotech) and yeah It sounds like a garbage truck when I pull up to stops around town. Not ideal That being said 996 calipers are crazy easy to swap pads on so I'm not too worried.

 

[ElectroFish]

Op,

What supercharger kit you go on there ? Looks like an Active Autowerke kit .

 

[ElectroFish]

Here is my current F80 m3 with 575 whp . The lease is up and I have a p3d+ on order