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What battery cells are in the 2023 M3 LR?
- Thread starter Jeremy3292
- Start date
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
NCM, but yes the Chinese LG 2170s are the only choice that makes sense. Despite some people with unsubstantiated beliefs to the contrary.
DarkNightP3D
Member
My friend is picking up a new LR AWD 3 tomorrow and I’ll be interested to see when he gets home how many kWh of energy the pack holds and how much more efficient it is vs. his ‘19 LR AWD 3. He’s going to have both cars for a few days. He did the FSD transfer deal. I think once we see how many kWh of energy the pack holds from 100-0% it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out if it has the same cells as the Y or if it’s definitely moved to LG cells.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess it holds about 75kWh. Just like back in the day (in Europe), and maybe now? Guess we'll get an EPA document at some point! Just not posted yet.
If one uses range and/or capacity calculations the inference is the LG battery. Is that possible? Sure! That it qualifies for the $7,500 US federal tax credit and is thus in direct conflict with US federal law has yet to be resolved. I have reservation over the apparent conflict. More, there remains any number of other explanations: At the very least there could be changes in the range calculation metric (no pressure on Tesla over that, right?), updated reserves in the BMS, even lower capacity cells from Panasonic. If that latter perhaps seconds. At the very least any are possible, and all would remain legally viable for the tax credit.
Mind you there is also the statement that Tesla is reporting full tax credit for the LFP variants that they are using foreign made batteries. I certainly can't explain that either.
None of above is, to me, compelling one way or the other.
Moving on, and with props to Videomatic, he suggests he has a source that identifies the cells on US cars as LG. If we assume he's credible, and we should as a default, that's a pretty compelling data point and moves us past inference. However, there are quite a few overseas auto mfg's with plants in the US that don't have access to the tax credit. Can you imagine the hue and cry soon to come? Wowsa.
Of course there may be an explanation for how this is legal, but it's eluded this thread so far. Certainly information mounts that Tesla is somehow using the LG and getting around the tax code. It's an interesting exercise both mentally and in the exhibition of good manners.
E90alex
Active Member
They are most likely importing raw cells and just assembling the modules/pack in North America to get around the North American assembly requirement.
For what it’s worth, the Tesla API says my 2023 Model 3 LR is coded “MT328”, which according to this website is using “LG Chem M50 79kWh battery with 2170 NMC cells, coded 5L”. Tesla Model 3 Ultimate Buyers Guide
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This apparent conflict is not evidence to be considered as the Model 3 RWD, which is 100% certain to have Chinese-made cells, is also currently eligible for the full $7500 tax credit.
I tend to agree with @E90alex - North American final pack assembly with foreign cells would seem to tick all the boxes until the mineral sourcing requirements go into effect next year (which Tesla clearly knows is coming given the banner on their site warning of reduced credits in 2024).
I’ve wondered what the definition of “assembly” is. This may indeed by the loophole. Hard to believe bringing cells in and putting them in packs qualifies, but I’ve not seen it defined. Been many months since I read the language though so…. In aviation “assembly” (this for experimental work) is defined by the majority of labor. If the EV credit bill doesn’t define same, well, more power to Tesla. Given Manchins rigid leanings and demands I’m surprised. If so that would sure lay rest my reservations. It would also flow with LG‘s US construction plan, save for the pretty obvious year or so gap.
My Model 3 LR AWD BOT 09/23 is definitely using the LG 78.8 (BT 43) battery pack
GhostSkater
Member
Anyone got a charging curve for the M50 packs? Curious to see how they perform
Are they the same packs that have been used in 3/Y P/LR in Europe and China? Peak a bit lower than 250 kW at single digits SoC and linearly goes down from there?
Worse than the Panasonic US cells but not by that much
Are they the same packs that have been used in 3/Y P/LR in Europe and China? Peak a bit lower than 250 kW at single digits SoC and linearly goes down from there?
Worse than the Panasonic US cells but not by that much
I tried plugging my car into a v3 charger and the most I got was 170kw... a really long away from the supposed 300kw max the car supports. I'll make sure I'm at a more empty charging station next time, when I plugged in there was someone on all 4 slots
GhostSkater
Member
You sure you have a Long Range one? 170 kW is the maximum the standard range can do
Also, make sure you set the Supercharger as destination so it preconditions the pack, and no Tesla currently can do 300 kW, max is 250 kW
As @GhostSkater says, 250kW max.
It only can peak 250kW if you start at very low SOC and did let the car perform a complete preheating.
If this is the case it might reach 250kW for a verry brief moment, then the power will reduce.
This is actual logs from Model Y LR made in Germany that use the same LG 78.8 kWh as the model 3 get in Europe. Teslalogger never did split model 3 in land of build so there is no clean data on M3LR
Most probably, yes.
The big reduction from Panasonic to LG in EPA-range is strange. But from all info we got so far, it is the same pack.
The older Panasonic 2170, 77.8 kWh (2018-2020) is the fastest charging ever in model 3 so far.
The newer model 3 Panasonic 2170L 82.1kWh (model year 2021-) is the next fastest.
You loose about 5 minutes on a regular SuC session with the LG compared to the newer Panasonic.
To be able to compare with comparsble data, here’s the other two.
The old Panna, one of the fastest charging tesla batteries so far:
The ne Panasonic 82.1kWh
Why is that hard to believe? It's common that battery cell manufacture is distinct from assembly & pack manufacture, as the expertise involved is distinct and cell manufacturers provide to multiple end manufacturers.
In aviation it's common that electronics and engines are supplied separately from the airframe manufacturing, correct? And aviation assembly does not count engine manufacturing or the same for electronic components----Boeing doesn't run a chip fabrication plant.
I'd guess that counting labor it would be similar---much of the cost of battery cells is in the raw materials processing, infrastructure and not labor.
The law gets more strict every year for US/allied sourcing of cells and packs---the intent is not to encourage EV sales to end users as policy but EV manufacturing choices. And it works as without this almost all new factories would be Chinese.
i think i would know what type of car i bought thanks.
the second time i plugged in it was a less busy station and it jumped to 210 at 19%.
and as i have stated from before, the 333 mile range model 3 has support for 300kw charging. how useful that will be is probably negligible unless somehow the car's full potential isnt unlocked yet for more data based on my current charging experience. since they are doing it in the model 3, i doubt that is the only car they are doing it for by now. we all know max tesla superchargers atm is 250.
I’m quite sure the current m3 model in US only supports 250kW (supercharger V3).
Anyway, this doesnt mather.
The LG batt in the latest 333mi version (if it wasthat version) will not go past 250kW, in fact it will struggle to resch 250kW.
You can see in the graphs that it barely reaches 250kW if you connect the car 0-5%. Starting the charge above this number will reduce the maximum power.
The reading on the screen includes the battery heat that is on for the first part of the charging session, so some 6kwh or a little more should be subtracted to se the same value as in the graphs above.
My top reading is 261-262kW, (M3P 2021) that included battery heat and cabin heat and the charging power into the batt was 251.75 kWh.
Yep. I see all that.
I’m quite sure the current m3 model in US only supports 250kW (supercharger V3).
Anyway, this doesnt mather.
The LG batt in the latest 333mi version (if it wasthat version) will not go past 250kW, in fact it will struggle to resch 250kW.
You can see in the graphs that it barely reaches 250kW if you connect the car 0-5%. Starting the charge above this number will reduce the maximum power.
The reading on the screen includes the battery heat that is on for the first part of the charging session, so some 6kwh or a little more should be subtracted to se the same value as in the graphs above.
My top reading is 261-262kW, (M3P 2021) that included battery heat and cabin heat and the charging power into the batt was 251.75 kWh.
Why would they bother putting it in the specs to support 300kw if it won't? I question it too. There must be something we don't know
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