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Where is full self drive button?

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you are paying for the privilege of beta testing software (and accepting 100% full responsibility for its actions on public roads) in order to provide valuable data to the company. This is indisputable fact.

In return you get cool driver assisted features and the promise by the CEO that one day "soon", you will be able to make tens of thousands of dollars by using your car as a autonomous driving taxi service. There is no current deadline/timeline for when this tax service will materialize. And factually speaking, the person making these timelines has proven to not be reliable when it comes to delivering what he says he is going to deliver in the FSD related space.

That said..you make YOUR choice as to whether you want to pay $12k for the above.
 
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We bought the car used 1k miles so we just took what came with car honesty at the time I thought all Tesla's came with FSD and had not done a huge amount of research. We were trading in a Honda Accord at CarMax and they gave us a ridiculous amount for it and they had this car. I would have had to wait 6 months to get if it was new. Yes the fear of missing out is playing into this. I have a love hate/feeling about Musk but if he jacks up the price to $25,000 when the software becomes fully autonomous I think I would feel dumb for not doing it now because I could make money at that point putting it in the fleet but at that point there will most likely be competition. Thanks for the advice I think I will go with subscription for now and wait. My friend that has it likes it but got it much cheaper. I know there is a device now you can buy that for $1000 that can make most newer cars as good or better than FSD. I don't see how the price increases are going to be sustainable.
 
I have a love hate/feeling about Musk but if he jacks up the price to $25,000 when the software becomes fully autonomous I think I would feel dumb for not doing it now because I could make money at that point putting it in the fleet but at that point there will most likely be competition.
Just so you know, it's highly unlikely the FSD Capability package you pay $12k for now will ever become fully autonomous. Tesla has made it clear that the "Autosteer on City Streets" feature is supposed to be an L2 driver assistance feature in their documents submitted to the DMV.
 
Just so you know, it's highly unlikely the FSD Capability package you pay $12k for now will ever become fully autonomous. Tesla has made it clear that the "Autosteer on City Streets" feature is supposed to be an L2 driver assistance feature in their documents submitted to the DMV.
Yes I read an article that said unless additional hardware is added it's unlikely autonomous driving will become reality. I'm thinking this will lead to some legal problems for Tesla.
 
We bought the car used 1k miles so we just took what came with car honesty at the time I thought all Tesla's came with FSD and had not done a huge amount of research. We were trading in a Honda Accord at CarMax and they gave us a ridiculous amount for it and they had this car. I would have had to wait 6 months to get if it was new. Yes the fear of missing out is playing into this. I have a love hate/feeling about Musk but if he jacks up the price to $25,000 when the software becomes fully autonomous I think I would feel dumb for not doing it now because I could make money at that point putting it in the fleet but at that point there will most likely be competition. Thanks for the advice I think I will go with subscription for now and wait. My friend that has it likes it but got it much cheaper. I know there is a device now you can buy that for $1000 that can make most newer cars as good or better than FSD. I don't see how the price increases are going to be sustainable.

He can only sell it for what people will buy it for, remember that. I paid 6k and then 10K for fsd. Wasn’t worth it but I’m ok with paying for it because I want all the latest features.

If you want working fsd and you expect that in return for your $12k you will be woefully disappointed. Your car almost certainly does not have the hardware necessary to achieve level 5 fsd.

Tesla has no incentive to sell robo taxies to consumers so I highly doubt you will ever see anything like that. As soon as that is possible Tesla is just a software company that might rent it’s cares to companies like Uber and liscense it’s software to other car companies. But we are a long way from that.
 
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Yes I read an article that said unless additional hardware is added it's unlikely autonomous driving will become reality. I'm thinking this will lead to some legal problems for Tesla.

They never promised your car would reach level 5. They just have to keeping working on it till those cars are off the road. That’s why fsd pricing keeps rising. Not because of added value, but to lower the take rate so that Teslas legal liability is diminished. Eventually all the people who bought fsd will mothball their Teslas and Tesla will have no legal obligation to them.
 
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People have been talking about class action suits (which havent happened), sure. No one knows what individuals have done on their own...

All of it would be public information and all of it would have to be disclosed by Tesla which is a publicly traded company. Having to give refunds for fsd would certainly have to be disclosed. Even if Tesla decided to break the law and not disclose it, the short sellers would have.

In short, we’d know about it.
 
you get cool driver assisted features and the promise by the CEO that one day "soon", you will be able to make tens of thousands of dollars by using your car as a autonomous driving taxi service. There is no current deadline/timeline for when this tax service will materialize.
This may be an important point. If you want to rent out your car, or several cars, as robotaxis, then they're a business, and you have a choice between hiring drivers (or working as a taxi driver yourself, if it's just one car) and paying for level 5 autonomy. In this scenario, level 5 autonomy is probably worth at least the $15,000 that it will soon cost, since that would be much less than the cost of a driver over the lifetime of the car.

For a typical personal user of a car, though, I'm not at all sure that even a full level 5 version of FSD is worth that much money. In fact, most people couldn't afford it; the cheapest Tesla today is the SR+ Model 3, which would be $61,990 when equipped with FSD at its soon-to-be price of $15,000. That's awfully close to a full year's income in the US; in 2019, the median income was $68,703. Tesla's current customer base is more affluent than average, although I don't have figures at hand, so many of us can afford to throw away money on the FSD package, but that still doesn't make it a good or appealing deal. As I understand it, the FSD take rate has been dropping since 2019, probably because of a failure to meet promises and rising prices.

Thus, whether even a fully-functioning level 5 autonomy system is "a bargain" (or whatever Musk called it) at $15,000 really depends on the future of transportation. If we replace personal automobiles with robotaxis, then an expensive level 5 package may be worth a lot of money, and help those who get in at the "ground level" of operating fleets of robotaxis get rich. If the personal automobile retains its place as a fixture of modern life, then such an expensive system will never take off. It'll either never emerge as a viable technology or prices will drop (compared to what Tesla is currently charging). Even if you believe that you'll be able to rent out your Tesla as a robotaxi in the future, the timeline for all this is important. Supposing a 10-year usable life for a robotaxi (which I'm guessing is long, since taxis see a lot of miles), if it takes 15 years before the technology is approved for use, you'll reap no financial rewards from buying it now. If it comes to pass in 5 years, then you'll get 5 years of useful rentals, and you'll almost certainly recoup a $15,000 investment today. Renting one car, though, would likely be a side hustle for most current owners. I suspect that most robotaxis, if and when they become real, will be owned by fleets -- Uber, Lyft, Hertz, etc.

Personally, I'm skeptical that Tesla will be able to turn current-production Teslas into cars with level 5 autonomy. Maybe it'll happen, but I'm not going to gamble $12,000, much less $15,000, on that happening. Even if it does happen, I'd be quite surprised if it were to happen in five years or less. I've seen steady but slow progress on the problem that falls well short of Tesla's promised timelines. Even if the next version of FSD was much better, there's the question of regulation, which involves government bureaucracies -- state-by-state government bureaucracies, unless Congress were to pass some overriding law, if I understand correctly.

All of which is to say that Tesla's current pricing is high. Charging $15,000 when they're on the verge of getting legal approval to run a robotaxi service might make sense, but they're pretty far from that.

Another point is that, because there's such an economic disparity between robotaxi use and personal vehicle use, I could see a pricing model that distinguishes between the two. That is, I as a private individual who only wants the car I own to drive me places, might pay some lesser amount for the feature (say, $5,000), whereas somebody who participates in Tesla's robotaxi fleet might need to pay much more (maybe $25,000). Another way to do it might be to pay by subscription, with a price charged per mile that the feature is active. This sort of differentiation is possible given the way Tesla's software works, and it's entirely possible we'll see such a split in the future, if and when robotaxis become a reality (or close to it).

Finally, there's the question of what the competition does. Other companies are working on level 5 autonomy, and some are even operating limited (geofenced) prototype services. If GM, Ford, VW, or whoever releases a level 5 system as an option on their cars for $5,000, then Tesla will have a hard time charging significantly more than that. Right now, AFAIK, Tesla's FSD-on-city-streets beta program is the closest anybody has to a system that's for sale for the general public, so Tesla is able to charge what they want (albeit with dropping take rates as they raise the price to ridiculous levels). I'm guessing that Tesla is using this income to fund R&D on FSD, whereas other companies are funding it in other ways. Once there are final products and competition between them, market forces will determine the price.
 
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All of it would be public information and all of it would have to be disclosed by Tesla which is a publicly traded company. Having to give refunds for fsd would certainly have to be disclosed. Even if Tesla decided to break the law and not disclose it, the short sellers would have.

In short, we’d know about it.
Wouldn't it be small claims curt? Highly doubt companies must declare everytime they lost a case in small claims.
 
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