Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Which direction should Tesla go as a company?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
oh no, not again.

Let's just agree that the Brits have a very strong spirit for everything sports & racing, and Kevin is showing his DNA here. I value his opinion on Tesla and the general direction of EV development, not necessarily agree with him, lest alone convince him he is wrong.

I hope to see this debate continued with new arguments, not by repeating the old ones.
 
Not at all, and it served it's purpose. We are past that stage now. Roadster -> Model S -> Bluestar gets us to EV's for the masses, another EV supercar does almost nothing in that respect. The Model T was not a supercar, it was affordable transportation. I think you are holding on to a 3-4 year old outlook where people thought EV's were slow, I don't think that's the case any longer, and that's certainly not the main arguments we see against them.

Chevy keeps producing and promoting the Corvette. Why, I wonder. Price? Image? Racing? Someone buying a Chevy "for the masses" likes to think that somewhere in the DNA is a really hot car, which is why Corvettes are still being made, and being improved with bigger engines, etc. etc. A Roadster II will be advertising. "This is what Electrics can do. You may not be able to afford one, but you have Roadster DNA in every Tesla."
 
They've already got that with the Roadster I, they don't need to do it again at this point.
The vast majority of mainstream car buyers that I meet have never heard of the Roadster (or Tesla for that matter). Building an iconic brand like the Corvette will take years and the Roadster is now entering the car history books not thrusting forward.

Obviously Elon agrees with me :biggrin:
Doesn't mean you are both right... you still have to turn the cash you've spent into a profit (assuming that's the goal) :p
 
The mainstream issue with EV's is they cost too much for long range. An overpriced performance EV reinforces the "toys for the rich" image. Besides, if you aren't out performing the Rimac you're just fighting for second place :wink: Not that I'm discouraging anyone from building performance EV's, I just don't think it's an important market segment at this point, EV's have proven their performance capabilities. Tens of thousands of Model S's roaming the streets will have far more impact than a handful of EV supercars.
I agree with this. Once they proved what electricity could do with the Roadster, it was not necessary to continue the line for now.

sorry but for most of the people I know the Model S is in that camp... how many people do you think can afford a car in the $50K bracket?
True. But for the same reason that Tesla could not begin with Bluestar and had to begin with a hand-built high-performance car for the rich, so too they cannot jump from Roadster to Bluestar, but need to proceed with an in-between car which can succeed with middle volume sales before moving on to an affordable car. Starting high-end and gradually moving downscale is a sound business plan.

Except that you have forgotten what drew many of us to the Roadster in the first place...
What drew me to the Roadster was that it was the first "real" electric car available to me. The Xebra's 35-mph top speed was just too limiting, though I'd have continued to drive it until something better became available. Before I bought my Roadster I said that its target market was sports-car enthusiasts for whom a Ferrari was not fast enough. But I didn't buy mine for being a sports car. I bought it for being an electric car. And I realize now that there are plenty of other Roadster owners who bought theirs for the same reason. A 150-mile electric Civic would have been my ideal car. I hope the Bluestar will be something along those lines.

Not at all, and it served it's purpose. We are past that stage now. Roadster -> Model S -> Bluestar gets us to EV's for the masses, another EV supercar does almost nothing in that respect. The Model T was not a supercar, it was affordable transportation. I think you are holding on to a 3-4 year old outlook where people thought EV's were slow, I don't think that's the case any longer, and that's certainly not the main arguments we see against them.
I agree with this also.

Chevy keeps producing and promoting the Corvette. Why, I wonder. Price? Image? Racing? Someone buying a Chevy "for the masses" likes to think that somewhere in the DNA is a really hot car, which is why Corvettes are still being made, and being improved with bigger engines, etc. etc. A Roadster II will be advertising. "This is what Electrics can do. You may not be able to afford one, but you have Roadster DNA in every Tesla."
I disagree. People don't buy a Chevy because it has a fast cousin in the Corvette. They buy a Chevy because they like the car they're buying, and perhaps they trust the brand.

GM can afford to build the Corvette because it's a gigantic car company with a huge number of models, so they build a wide range of cars. When Tesla is a huge company with ten or twenty car models, it will make perfect sense to have a roadster among them. But for now, Tesla needs to concentrate on building itself as a company, and a Roadster Mk II would soak up too much of its resources at this time. It's coming, but this is not the time for it.

The Roadster served its purpose, and even though they're not building any more of them for now, it's on the roads, in the public eye, and it's creating name recognition and respect.
 
Not at all.... I just think many mainstream drivers aspire to top end sports cars not BMW 5 series... the Flux Capacitor is getting a lot of interest here and has the stated aim of beating the Tesla Roadster while remaining street legal;

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9135-Flux-Capacitor-Europe-s-fastest-street-legal-EV

Okay, that will keep Tesla's profile, and more importantly EVs in general, in the spotlight.

In the meantime Tesla is building a real car company instead of just chasing a very narrow market.

Ideally Tesla would do both, but resources are limited. I think the Model S pushes the technology platform forward far more than another Roadster would. In the long run that is more important IMHO.
 
Not at all.... I just think many mainstream drivers aspire to top end sports cars not BMW 5 series... the Flux Capacitor is getting a lot of interest here and has the stated aim of beating the Tesla Roadster while remaining street legal;

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9135-Flux-Capacitor-Europe-s-fastest-street-legal-EV

At next years Santa Pod I'm going to look pretty silly at 12.9 seconds when an Enfield 8000 p*sses all over my Roadster :redface:

If Tesla give us the tools then we can help them build an iconic brand...
You must be kidding. White Zombie already pisses all over your Roadster and is street legal. So what? The Roadster had much more impact since it's a production vehicle with impressive range. Tesla is already building an iconic brand, and you already helped them by buying a Roadster. I understand that they currently aren't building a product that interests you, but it's obviously targeting a larger market, which is what they need to do.
 
The vast majority of mainstream car buyers that I meet have never heard of the Roadster (or Tesla for that matter). Building an iconic brand like the Corvette will take years and the Roadster is now entering the car history books not thrusting forward.
So building another small volume super EV is going to help Tesla how exactly? Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc. don't offer performance vehicles yet they sell quite well. It seems as if the importance you give to a halo vehicle no longer exists, or the definition of a halo vehicle has changed. I'd argue that Toyota's halo vehicle is the Prius, or the Camry.
 
OK, so some of you guys just don't get the importance of iconic sports cars....
Because it doesn't exist :wink:

I think they have to build a car from scratch to learn how to build a car from scratch. Besides a possible slight trunk alignment issue, are there other S quality problems?
 
You must be kidding. White Zombie already pisses all over your Roadster and is street legal. So what? The Roadster had much more impact since it's a production vehicle with impressive range. Tesla is already building an iconic brand, and you already helped them by buying a Roadster. I understand that they currently aren't building a product that interests you, but it's obviously targeting a larger market, which is what they need to do.
Absolutely!

There are and always will be faster/quicker cars than my Roadster. But my Roadster is quiet, uses cheap domestic energy (hydro here, or can use wind or solar) and does not sacrifice efficiency for performance: takes about the same amount of energy to run an electric super car as to run an electric golf cart or NEV. A Corvette uses many gallons more gas than, say, a Corolla. And compared to a Prius, the Corvette is obscenely wasteful. My Prius uses about the same amount of energy as my Xebra did.

I enjoy the thrust my car has. But if someone has a gas car that's quicker/faster, I just hold my nose and put my hands over my ears and hope they enjoy their car. I don't care if their car can beat mine. Now, if someone comes out with an EV that's quieter than mine, or uses less electricity, then I'll be envious.

OK, so some of you guys just don't get the importance of iconic sports cars.... so, shall we move onto the next item that I raised in the light of the Model S quality problems that are surfacing?

"I would like to have seen an existing mule used to lower the development burden on a next generation car. IMO this would deliver a car quicker, cheaper, and with a lot less risk."
Tesla is not taking Roadsters off the road. We're still out here showing off our iconic Tesla sports car.

Tesla is doing just what you suggest by building the Model X on the Model S platform. However, in the long run they need smaller cars as well. Bluestar build on a Model S mule would be too large a car for the target buyer. I'm sure that in the long run Tesla will have several models per platform.
 
There is nothing wrong with iconic sports cars, but Tesla needs to focus on one new car at this time (more or less, while preparing future cars as well), and the Roadster on a Lotus mule was not an option anymore. There probably aren't any good mules which would allow all the advantages which a from-the-scratch-design offers. I'm sure Tesla and Elon are more than willing to build Roadster 3.0, and SuperRoadster, as soon as resources are available without having to take them away from projects more critical to the EV future.

Tesla wants to show what a no-compromise electric car can be, and the current state of battery technology points to the $50k to $80k range if you want to offer a good myth-busting range. The Model S is probably suited to achieve the highest possible volume in this price range.

Detroit, being distracted by hybrids and hydrogen, doesn't have the passion to build the all-electric cars which Tesla will build, "increasingly affordable", in high quality, and with highest safety ratings. Maybe good cupholders take a bit longer. ;)
 
I'm new in these parts so don't beat me up too bad:biggrin: my main thing so far that I'd like to see as a shift in direction, is the option to go with both CHAdeMO and SAE J1772 as offered on the Leaf. I'd be fine if they were centrally located in the Frunk for charging out in the wild. there are just so many of these chargers now that I'd like an option to not having to plug in an adapter any time I want to use them. I can see how Tesla's port is an improvement, but I feel that compatibility at this critical step of EV infrastructure roll out is more important both for Tesla owners as well as for the benefit of supporting a since standard in the EV revolution overall. Perfect does not have to be the enemy of good, since good enough is here already.
 
Adapters are going to be part of EV life for a while, and it's just not that big a deal to use them. It's early enough in the game that I think Tesla made the right call to do their own better plug format, which is what you'll be using most of the time, at home.
 
I can see how Tesla's port is an improvement, but I feel that compatibility at this critical step of EV infrastructure roll out is more important both for Tesla owners as well as for the benefit of supporting a since standard in the EV revolution overall.

Adapters are going to be part of EV life for a while, and it's just not that big a deal to use them. It's early enough in the game that I think Tesla made the right call to do their own better plug format, which is what you'll be using most of the time, at home.

I'm not well versed on this subject, but I'm inclined to agree that currently CHAdeMO isn't the answer. Aren't most of the CHAdeMO fast chargers of rather low capacity? Even with an adapter wouldn't this make them of limited value to Model S owners? I'm inclined to wait to hear Tesla's plan with regard to the Supercharger network before concluding that they should have accepted an inferior "standard". Ironically there's yet another "standard" in the wings in the form of SAE. Which inferior "standard" should Tesla have chosen in the interests of compatibility? :wink:

Larry
 
Besides a possible slight trunk alignment issue, are there other S quality problems?
at this time I'm simply going to say interior, comfort, competition, and water.... you'll just have to wait to see whether any of these resonate with early customers over the next few weeks :wink:
I giggled a little at this one.

Clearly Tesla should be doing something about the quality of their competition.

The comfort of the Model S is also clearly inferior to the model of water leakage, the venerable Roadster. It is so cute when it leaks like a proper British convertible!