CHAdeMO supports up to 100kW and some of the European chargers are already 60kW (I don't know what's on the ground in the US).
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Which direction should Tesla go as a company?
- Thread starter dsm363
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It's a big deal in Europe where they cannot be used... it's also hard to imagine a portable 50kW+ DC adapter in your trunk.
No, the European Model S does not yet exist. However, why is that important to this discussion? If you look you can find plenty of references to Model S interior, comfort, and competition from people that have seen the cars... start on the Tesla Motors Forums.
Please also remember that I have an engineering background and own companies on the US West Coast... think about this for a minute... lets wait and see whether my forth issue holds 'water' shall we?
You are so pro-Tesla that it makes it almost impossible to have a reasoned debate here... do you own Tesla stock?
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If you take a look at my original wish list you will find that I suggested Tesla should have three cars at this time.... a 300+ mile range Roadster that's constantly being improved, a next generation Super Car, and a mass produced car based on a mainstream mule. If you look at Tesla motoring partners it's not difficult to imagine one of those providing the mule (indeed for a long time that's what Tesla worked on).
This whole discussion is based on "what I wish Tesla had done", and I'm trying to reflect some widely held views both inside and outside Tesla. Obviously, Tesla did not follow this path and therefore this is all hypothetical nonsense.
What I think is important is that Tesla grows as a company... for that to happen they do need to listen to existing EV and gas drivers, especially if Tesla have international aspirations.
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Norbert
TSLA will win
Which I think they are doing pretty well, as reservations are now over 12,000. So soon 5 times as many as Roadsters have been sold, and they are likely able to build that many in the first 12 months, if not more.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Norbert
TSLA will win
The reservation rate has been increasing continuously and is now above 8,000 per year. Adding new shops is one of the factors here, and Tesla is and will be adding new shops.
I still think Tesla does more good and pushes EVs forward by their current route than staying in the supercar territory. People like my parents would never have gotten a Tesla (Model S) if it was a $200,000 supercar with sub 3 second times. As was said previously, I think Tesla may actually build the Roadster you're looking for just not for a few years at least. If Tesla had secured an order for 100,000 powertrains a year from Mercedes for example then your scenario with Tesla sticking to a niche supercar market and selling powertrains would have worked. It doesn't seem as if Tesla was able to accomplish that so the only way to grow as a company and sell more EVs is do build the Model S.
If I understood Elon's statement correctly at the shareholder meeting, break-even is at 8,000 cars after production is ramped up. In other words, 5,000 cars this year and 3,000 until June, 2013 wouldn't do it. They will burn cash in 2012 and turn profitable on Model S if they produce & sell > 8,000 in 2013. I don't know if ongoing development costs for Model X and GenIII are factored into profitability. These figures should be obtainable from their financial plans... Nigel do you have a clue?
Correct, but they still have to deliver cars that mainstream buyers wish to purchase... quality and value for money will be extremely important once they move beyond the current reservation holders.
Tesla have spent a hugh amount of cash and repaying those loans, rewarding the investors, and making a profit will take mainstream buyers.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes I do own some Tesla stock, but I'm not sure what that has to do with thinking they are on the right path with their current plans. I assume we both want Tesla to succeed, share holder or not. I've been critical of some of Elon's choices from the beginning but I can't argue with their success.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
None of who would buy the supercar you keep suggesting Tesla should be building.
I fail to see how building a low volume supercar would help them address quality issues in their more mainstream vehicles. You seem to want Tesla to spread itself thin working on a number of different vehicles at once, I think that's a really poor idea. The bottom line is Tesla right now is selling cars faster than they can build them. Until that trend turns around they don't need advertising or any potential press that you think might come from building another sports car. Again, look at all the successful car companies that exists without a high end supercar in their lineup. That alone would suggest the importance you place on having a super car in the lineup does not translate into the real world of auto sales.
For me personally, a supercar has less than zero interest. The Model S appears to be a great car but it's stupidly overpowered. I'd much rather trade half the power (and 1/4 of the size) of a Model S for two or three times the range (and 21st century styling). I'm getting one because right now it's the only game in town.
However, I believe Tesla is going in the correct direction. I wouldn't want to see them change it.
However, I believe Tesla is going in the correct direction. I wouldn't want to see them change it.
If you read my original wish list you'll see it includes three cars not one...
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8797-Which-direction-should-Tesla-go-as-a-company/page2?p=146635&viewfull=1#post146635
I'm just speculating that those forum members who are quickest to dismiss criticism are also those that hold Tesla stock... probably an over simplistic analysis but it's interesting to look at threads here and elsewhere and speculate.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes, and I disagree with your entire premise since it's mostly distractions from what I think they should be doing, concentrating on a single vehicle targeted at a larger audience and building their own vehicle. You are coming from the viewpoint that performance and racing are paramount and should take a lot of Tesla's focus. Obviously because you are very interested in another performance EV from them, which is fine. The question is does that make the most sense for Tesla as a company trying to survive and increase the adoption of EV's for the masses. I don't think so for the reasons I've outlined.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Well it does make sense that people who think Tesla is doing more things right than wrong would invest in the stock. I don't like Tesla because I bought the stock, I bought the stock because I like Tesla. Since you don't think Tesla is heading in the right direction I would not expect you to own the stock.
You list 2 versions of the Roadster/supercar then Tesla selling their powertrain technology to other companies in that post. Companies like Mercedes usually take existing platforms and shove an EV powertrain into them taking away one of the benefits of designing the car for an EV from the ground up which is one of the reasons the Model S will likely be a great car in it's performance at least. I don't disagree with you that Tesla should come out with a super version of its Roadster down the road but the direction you want Tesla to take (low volume sports car with some powertrain sales) is different than a lot of people here would prefer. A Tesla forum isn't exactly representative of the general population of course.
The Model S and Model X do appeal to a lot of US car buyers at least and I'm sure some Europeans. Their Gen III car should be smaller and more geared towards the European market and likely serve as the platform for the new Roadster as well so hopefully by 2015. Tesla selling their powertrain to Mercedes or someone else for 'compliance EVs' in the California market does little to push EVs forward. While a 300+ mile sub 3 second Roadster may 'wow' people, it still shows that EVs are unaffordable and not worth seriously considering to the more mainstream public. A luxury sedan, while still expensive, changes the equation and brings more buyers into play. I think you'll agree that once you drive an EV or ride in one, your thinking changes. Just from the, hopefully, tens of thousands of Model S and Xs Tesla will sell over the next 3-5 years, many more people will see and experience an EV and look to buy one themselves. If they stuck to 500 cars a year of at $150k+ supercar and a thousand or so lease only vehicles in one or two states from Mercedes, EVs would get much less exposure.
I also have some Tesla stock but my goals for Tesla are for them to grow as a company, become and stay profitable and talk more people into driving EVs. Not from a motivation of shareholder dividends or anything since I don't own enough stock for that to make any real difference but from a desire for Tesla and EVs to succeed.
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