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WhiteStar dashboard?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by TEG, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    What do you think the WhiteStar dashboard should look like?

    The old EV1 had EL digital displays:
    ev1bootupb.jpg
    ev1insts.jpg

    Nissan Altra:
    [​IMG]

    Honda EVplus:
    [​IMG]

    Honda FCX:
    [​IMG]

    The Ford RangerEV has simple, old style, analog gauge needles.
    [​IMG]

    The Tesla Roadster also has analog guages for Motor RPM and Vehicle Speed.
    [​IMG]

    The Tesla Roadster also has a "VDS" LCD display off to the side for additional information.
    [​IMG]
    (Doesn't this seem a little low and out of the way to be looked at safely while driving?)

    ACpropulsion has a simple monochrome LCD for their dashboard instrumentation:
     
  2. Takumi

    Takumi Member

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    Re: WhitesStar dashboad?

    I prefer analog Speed and RPM. All others can be bundled into the Navigation system as long as the audio can be controlled at the steering wheel (prevents me from fumbling with unnecessary buttons just to hear music while driving.)
     
  3. AGR

    AGR Member

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    Re: WhitesStar dashboad?

    This dash is cool
     
  4. AGR

    AGR Member

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    Re: WhitesStar dashboad?

    or this dash / cockpit
     
  5. AGR

    AGR Member

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    Re: WhitesStar dashboad?

    or this one here....the gauges need to be analog.
     
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Re: WhitesStar dashboad?

    All Mercedes, eh?

    I am not so much into Mercedes interiors.

    My IS300 instrument cluster is a little unusual:
    Dash.jpg
    71753710_8ab4a7622c.jpg

    Check out how much manual control you have in a McLaren F1-GTR:
    bi867555gc.jpg

    Porsche Turbo:
    porsche_911turbo__dash.jpg

    Ferrari Enzo:
    enzo_dashboard2.jpg
    enzo_dashboard.jpg

    Viper SRT10
    2008DodgeViperSRT10Dashboard1280x960_01.jpg

    Lamborghini Murcielago:
    [​IMG]

    Aston Martin DB9:
    [​IMG]
     
  7. AGR

    AGR Member

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    Re: WhitesStar dashboad?

    Most luxury sedans, and at the price of a WhiteStar it will be in "luxury sedan territory" all have similarities with their interior and dashboard / cockpits.

    They all have analog gauges usually for speedometer and tachometer, and smaller gauges for the gas gauge, and temprature gauge, the oil pressure is now a light no longer a gauge in many cars. Plus a small display for odometer / trip odemeter these are usually in the dash immediately in front of the driver.

    On the centre part there is the required screen which displays a multitude of information, from radio - navigation - telephone - CD changer and whatever else a manufacturer wants to integrate in the screen.

    The HVAC controls are usually in the area of the screen , most cars have the power window switches on the doors, as well as the power seat / heated seat / seat ventilation switches are often on the doors.

    Dashboards of sportscars will place a greater emphasis on the Tachometer than the speedometer, this set up is not well accepted in a sedan.

    The shifter is in the console, or paddles, or the small shifter on the column with either paddles or buttons behind the steering wheel.

    The ignition key is on the right of the steering columns, except for Porsche on the left, and Saab on the console. Cars with keyless start in most cases its the ignition key that sends the signal to unlock and start the car, the cards can be prone to glitches and without the key one is stranded.

    The light switch is on the left of the steering column.

    All cars have slightly different and very similar dash / cockpit layouts, a Mercedes or BMW layout is very Teutonic and intuitive, a Lexus layout is more "buttons here and there" less intuitive.

    The sound system is either a Bose - Harman Kardon - or a Mark Levinson good sound, 6 disc CD changer with easy MP3 (iPod) adaptability. Navigation system DVD based with 1 disc for North America which are updated every 24 months - Navtech does most of the mapping for navigation systems.
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Re: WhitesStar dashboad?

    I don't necessarily agree with all you said.

    Some cars have the headlight switches in a location other than what you said. (Not always on the left stalk)

    I was not aware that key-less entry is considered unreliable. Everyone I know with a Prius loves their proximity unlock and pushbutton starter.

    Not everyone thinks European sedans have intuitive ergonomics. I prefer a typical Japanese sedan. In part it depends on what you are used to.

    If you drive a lot of rental cars you find that some things are all over the place.
    The headlight switch, horn buttons, power mirror controls, fuel filler unlock, dashboard dimmer switch, interior light on/off switch are examples of things that could be anywhere depending on the car you get. There is no one way to do it right, but some cars just feel "familiar" even if the controls are in unusual places.

    Bose / Harman Kardon / Mark Levinson are not the only name for good sound. You can find some very decent factory stereos, or other names like Polk, Blaupunkt, Nakamichi, etc.
    I found the factory stereo (not even a Mark Levinson) in my IS300 sounds a lot better than the stereos in BMW 3 series I was comparing it to when I made the decision to buy.

    My wife likes old fashioned "bench seats" and column shifters, but the norm these days seems to be bucket seats with floor mounted shifters.
    Again the Prius bucks the trend with a little joystick shifter on the dash. If you haven't driven a Prius you should try one sometime to see just how far they can make things different (styling, drivetrain, ergonomics) and still make something that is accepted as relatively mainstream.

    This topic was really about dashboards though... So to get back on topic, here is a Prius dashboard:

    toyota_prius_dashboard.jpg
     
  9. AGR

    AGR Member

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    I conclude that by dashboard you mean the gauges, and not all of the other controls that are usually in a dashboard.

    Keyless entry is a standard feature on the majority of cars, I was referring to Keyless go or a smart key where you just walk up to the car and it unlocks, put your foot on the brake press the start button on the shifter and it starts without actually using the key.

    We are all different individuals with different likes and dislikes. We are talking about the same thing, we want the "ergonomics" of a car to appeal to our sense of how and where we expect all the swithgear to be. Manufacturers try to work up to the 95th percentile when it comes to interiors, they try to make them suitable for 95 percent of the people.
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    When I was talking about keyless I was talking about cars that don't need a key for the ignition too.
    (The Prius works this way).

    Also, it unlocks the doors automatically when you walk up to the car.
    You don't have to pull out your keychain and push any buttons.

    There is a backup key that can unlock and go if the keychain battery dies.
     
  11. rphooper

    rphooper New Member

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    Being that this is an electric car, there are a number of displays I would like that you wouldn't see on a ICE dashboard. No need for RPM, engine temp, or a gas gage, would like to see your current charge, expected miles to go on your charge, your current battery dischage/charge rate. it would be great if it had an integrated navigation system, that could track the distance you are from your home, compare it to your current range and suggest when you should turn around and head home.

    All this information should be presented on a graphic LCD, with user customizable options, so people can decide for themselves where they want the MPH reading, and if they want a round analogue gage or a digital reading, etc. There is no reason with todays technology that we need a one size fits all approach to the dashboard.
     
  12. Brent

    Brent Member

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    I rather like Mercedes' simplicity and easy-to-read layout. I'm guessing, however, the electric car will get enable a panel simpler still.

    I see only three really critical bits of info: speed, RPM, and battery charge. Speed and RPM might have their own gauges, while an LCD display could have a permanent space given to the battery charge. Everything else would be on different pages of the LCD.

    The NAV system probably should have its own LCD.
     
  13. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    "integrated navigation system, that could track the distance you are from your home, compare it to your current range and suggest when you should turn around and head home.

    Or you program in your destination in your driveway (perhaps you have plotted a map on your computor and bring a USB or smart card to plug in) and once the integrated Nav system calculates a route it gives you the miles and distance like all other NAV systems do but also the projected battery useage for the journey including the trip back. You can then include "waypoints" (other stops) up to the point where you you would deplete the battery as you pull back into the driveway.

    cool.
     
  14. AGR

    AGR Member

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    This car would have a 200 mile range, leave with a 80% battery for a 160 mile range, and primarily be used as a commuter vehicle. It would be replicating the same trip and distances most of the time.

    The correct charging systems for these cars run on 220V, by the time you get to your destination with an almost dead battery at 10% how do you charge quickly, or use the slow charger and leave the car there, or get flatbeaded while sitting on the car.

    Running out of batteries is less fun than running out of gas. Especially that batteries don't like to be fully charged of fully drained.

    I would prefer to pay for a "better battery" than some navigation / distance / how much juice is left in the battery / how far can I go before I'm SOL system.
     
  15. rphooper

    rphooper New Member

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    I'd rather have a very accurate display of how far I can go on a charge then a few more miles of battery life that I may or may not use wisely. My current BMW has a particularly bad system for calculating your gas usage and how far you have to go until empty. it will be getting low and I look at it and it says 70 miles to go, then a mile later the low gas light goes on and it will say 36 miles to go... what happened to that 35 miles, I didn't change my driving over that time. its also incorrect depending on how hot it is outside I've run out of gas while the computer was saying I had 20 miles to go. didnt take me long to learn not to trust the computer. If Tesla does something like this I hope they make it VERY accurate.

    I also regularly drive 160 miles round trip most weekends. While I have the ability to slow charge it from a 110 outlet over the weekend before driving home, the 200 mile range is important to me, in case the powers out or I have to rush home, but most important of all is peace of mind in knowing I have enough charge to get home. Giving people this peace of mind should be a prominent part of any Dashboard system.
     
  16. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    On the Highlander Hybrid they don't bother with an RPM gauge because you have both eMotor and Gas Engine sometimes working alone and sometimes working together.
    Instead they have a tach like thing that shows total system power (in kW) being created.
    The Roadster has a tachometer, but perhaps that is just a carryover from the Elise cluster? With their complete control over RPM, Torque requested, and HP produced perhaps a new type of display should be shown which includes requested Torque, and HP produced rather than simply RPMs.

    I like the idea of mode selective displays. The regular display with minimal info, and the "geek mode" display with lots of details.
    Showing PEM voltage and current output, regen current, and all those little details that would be fun to track.
    I don't know how much info they already have on the VDS, but having access to as much as possible would be nice for those that want to see it.
     
  17. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    The Roadster interior was obviously an effort to create a "classic" sports car experience. It's spartan and decidedly low tech looking. Probably as much for budget as style since those button filled dashboards are expensive. The instrument cluster does not say anything cutting edge -especially if you look at that EV1 dash. There’s not even a glove box.

    Personally I wish the VDS display and NAV system were bigger and more ergonomically placed front and center or in the cluster like the Pacifica because it makes sense. Nobody can tell me that looking at my left knee is a good idea when driving. At the price of a Roadster the NAV system should be more than an add-on. The small size of those screens will probably be harder to read for the 40+ buyers (which is most, I'm sure).

    This would not be the first time logic and clarity took a back seat to aesthetic decisions, in this case making the Roadster a pure sports car without all the overt gadgets that an EV could support.

    I just hope that my Whitestar does not go with the same “old school” sensibility.



    By the way, it looks like the cockpit section of the Tesla site got a bit of a revamp since I last looked at it.
     
  18. mt2

    mt2 Member

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    I'm seriously considering the WhiteStar as my retirement car. I'm planning on retiring early, doing some consulting, and spending a lot of time in a comfortable car with friends and family. I'm looking forward to our Sunday drives visiting lighthouses and watching the leaves turn in the fall.

    To that end, I'm hoping the dash looks more like the Aston Martin. I'll want to enjoy the drive and not so much the driving. How much do I really need to look at other than the speedometer and the 'fuel' gauge? Put the rest on the console and get it out of my way.

    In IT we refer to "elegant" programs - which always ends up meaning "simple". My daughter, the interior designer, is also quite familiar with simple, or understated, elegance. As is my brother the mechanical designer. It's a principle that I trust Tesla will bring to the interior of the WhiteStar.
     
  19. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    I think you must have meant to say, "The Elise interior". The Roadster's interior is so Elise it hurts.


    It's spartan because that's the Elise's niche, that's what kind of car it is. It's a minimalist track car that's been modified just enough to make it acceptable on the highway. The Roadster inherited that style, for good or ill.


    There aren't many good places to add stuff to the interior of an Elise.

    I've got to admit that I'm surprised by all the talk about nav systems. I guess I'm behind the times. I thought nav systems were still rare, expensive, temperamental, complex, basically experimental devices that a few early adopters are trying out while the rest of the world waits for them to be perfected. Yet now I see people talking about nav systems as if they were perfectly normal gadgets that they expect a new car to have -- from the factory, even!

    This is what happens when I go 12 years without buying a new car, I guess.


    In this case it wasn't aesthetic decisions that dictated the result, it was more a matter of cost control and expedience. Completely redesigning the interior would have taken a lot of money and time, as opposed to taking the Elise interior and making the minimum required modifications to it.


    It's a completely different category of vehicle, and it will be a new design from the ground up, not based on any existing gasoline-powered car. So. . . Tesla's designers won't have any excuses with the White Star. :)


    I'm sure they're doing what little they can to try and civilize it.
     
  20. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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