Why does Tesla say the car will come find you in a parking lot?

[gnuarm]

I agree with your complex scenario.

Similarly, a pedestrian hit by a car can first get compensation from the driver. When the driver's insurance is not enough, the plaintiff can also sue the city because of the road condition, paint markings, traffic lights that allow drivers to turn right when red...

The victim can also sue the manufacturer of the traffic cameras that distracted the driver and the pedestrian got hit as the result. Also the painter who painted the sign that traffic cameras are used in this intersection too! The driver read the sign and got distracted! How else the pedestrian got hit?

So, it's not just a driver, car manufacturer, city but anyone else can be sued too.

But the first answer for a Tesla owner about who's responsible is: The manual owner says Tesla does not accept responsibility when a driver is using Autopilot. So don't count on shifting the responsibility to the city, traffic camera company, traffic sign company...

You are hitting exactly on the point, but you still aren't grasping the reality. If a company could relieve themselves of product liability by writing a few words, then there would never be product liability. Why woudn't every company making any product with potential of safety problems simply write a disclaimer rather than improve their product?

Companies being held responsible for the products they sell is a matter of fact in the law. There is no "shifting" of responsibility. The issue is simply that the law requires products to be designed with safety in mind. Every company has the responsibility to make their products safe.

 

[StealthP3D]

Companies being held responsible for the products they sell is a matter of fact in the law. There is no "shifting" of responsibility. The issue is simply that the law requires products to be designed with safety in mind. Every company has the responsibility to make their products safe.

It's common for companies to include product disclaimers. But these have no ability to eliminate product liability, at best they discourage people from suing them. All products have liability attached to them. That is the incentive for companies to maintain high safety standards. And Tesla is one of the safest cars in the world. You are barking up the wrong tree. Tesla is way ahead of you when it comes to product safety.

 

[Tam]

...So when they say their rates for Tesla cars are higher because of higher accident rates, they are basing this on their records of accidents, no?

Maybe it's time to switch your insurance.

My current premium is:

Which is very much comparable to my 2006 Toyota Prius premium in 2016. That car was 10 years old at that time:

 

[StealthP3D]

Maybe it's time to switch your insurance.

My current premium is....

That's nice you provided that but my observation is Gnuarm visits multiple threads to stir up negative Tesla sentiment and disrupt the naturally friendly and productive nature of the forum. His points are rarely valid or fact-based and they are ALWAYS negative towards Tesla. His attempts to appear factual and unbiased stretch the limits of credibility. I would hope this is readily apparent to anyone who has read more than a few of his posts.

 

[OCR1]

Then you understand that they have rather exhaustive records of every aspect of the events they cover in their policies. So when they say their rates for Tesla cars are higher because of higher accident rates, they are basing this on their records of accidents, no?

No. Insurance rates vary wildly. If Teslas were universally understood to have higher accident rates then all insurance companies would charge more for them. But based on the numerous threads that have been posted in this forum comparing insurance rates on Tesla vehicles that is clearly not the case. My insurance company charged the same rates for both of my Model 3’s as they did previously on our Lexus and Toyota vehicles.

The Model 3 received a five star perfect rating from NHTSA and was rated lowest possibility of injury of any vehicle tested. So an insurance company is not going to ding a car with these ratings over safety.

Your insurance company is just making stuff up to try and collect a higher premium from you. It happens all the time in the insurance industry.

Model 3 achieves the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by NHTSA

 

[gnuarm]

Maybe it's time to switch your insurance.

My current premium is:

Which is very much comparable to my 2006 Toyota Prius premium in 2016. That car was 10 years old at that time:

I appreciate you taking the time to post this. But it is not possible to compare rates between states since each state is a separate risk pool. Also, you don't indicate the details of your car. Some coverages like collision depend highly on the price of the vehicle. Collision covers damage to your own vehicle and your cost seems to be pretty reasonable for a typical car while the model X comes in versions that vary 2:1 in price. I take it your model X is not a high end model?

I have not seen data on accident rates for Teslas, but I'd love to see that. If nothing else, but to verify my insurance agent is not lying to me.

 

[gnuarm]

No. Insurance rates vary wildly. If Teslas were universally understood to have higher accident rates then all insurance companies would charge more for them. But based on the numerous threads that have been posted in this forum comparing insurance rates on Tesla vehicles that is clearly not the case. My insurance company charged the same rates for both of my Model 3’s as they did previously on our Lexus and Toyota vehicles.

The Model 3 received a five star perfect rating from NHTSA and was rated lowest possibility of injury of any vehicle tested. So an insurance company is not going to ding a car with these ratings over safety.

Your insurance company is just making stuff up to try and collect a higher premium from you. It happens all the time in the insurance industry.

Model 3 achieves the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by NHTSA

I guess that's great if you are driving a model 3. My car is an X. Even so, reports like this are done by lab testing of very specific impact tests and do not always relate to lower injury rates and has no relation to lower accident rates which I believe is what my insurance agent was claiming.

 

[OCR1]

I guess that's great if you are driving a model 3. My car is an X. Even so, reports like this are done by lab testing of very specific impact tests and do not always relate to lower injury rates and has no relation to lower accident rates which I believe is what my insurance agent was claiming.

Your insurance agent is claiming something that has not been echoed on this forum by other owners. it is up to you whether you want to believe your agent and pay higher rates or find another company. I know which one I would be doing.

 

[gnuarm]

Your insurance agent is claiming something that has not been echoed on this forum by other owners. it is up to you whether you want to believe your agent and pay higher rates or find another company. I know which one I would be doing.

"Has not been echoed"? The only way to know is to have facts. Have you seen any facts that dispute the insurance company's claim?

As to the rates, I've not found that my present rate is any higher than other company's rates. This is something that has to be compared apples to apples.

 

[OCR1]

"Has not been echoed"? The only way to know is to have facts. Have you seen any facts that dispute the insurance company's claim?

As to the rates, I've not found that my present rate is any higher than other company's rates. This is something that has to be compared apples to apples.

Have you seen any facts that support your insurance company’s claim?

 

[HWEL]

That's nice you provided that but my observation is Gnuarm visits multiple threads to stir up negative Tesla sentiment and disrupt the naturally friendly and productive nature of the forum. His points are rarely valid or fact-based and they are ALWAYS negative towards Tesla. His attempts to appear factual and unbiased stretch the limits of credibility. I would hope this is readily apparent to anyone who has read more than a few of his posts.

I was about to chime in when I saw your comment. So you saved me from a lot of typing, thanks...

Long story short: To insure a Tesla on this side of the pond is waay cheaper than other premium cars. (Might as well be that these companies are not familiar with the Tennessee accident rates...)

 

[StealthP3D]

I was about to chime in when I saw your comment. So you saved me from a lot of typing, thanks...

You bet. I would be surprised if anyone took him seriously except perhaps for a few Guests who were just browsing posts without a TMC membership. For the last month, I've been trying to find a TMC member that has more "thumbs down" or "disagrees" than "thumbs ups" or "likes". Everyone I've found has more "thumbs ups" than "thumbs downs". Every single member I've checked.

Except for gnuarm

He's the only one I can find that has such a disagreeable rating (by far). I'm surprised the moderators don't ban him because it's pretty obvious what he's doing here, trying to disrupt things and give everyone who visits the forum a negative, sinking feeling while spreading negativity about Tesla. People don't visit forums to read negativity for the sake of negativity.

I love the fact that Tesla is a disruptor, gnuarm, not so much. Two different kinds of disruption.

 

[Tam]

...I take it your model X is not a high end model?...

My 2006 Prius was not high end either but it did have standard 4 speaker stereo and powered windows (which I didn't have with my Ford Escort prior to that). It cost about $30,000.

It's also true that my 2017 Model X was not a high end trim either as posted on my signature Black 100D, 5 seater, tow, premium interiro, FSD which cost $117,950 but if I ordered the exact options in 2019, it would be $97,000.

 

[StealthP3D]

Here's a story about a car in a parking lot backing over a child yesterday evening:

Driver accidentally hits child crouched behind car in NC park, police say

This kind of accident simply wouldn't happen on a Tesla using the Summon feature. My 32 lb. dog is enough to stop it dead in its tracks when it runs in the way when using summon. The child was hospitalized with serious injuries. I imagine the liability insurance of the driver will have to pay for all the medical care. Summon will reduce injury, death and property damage, not increase it.

These kind of features cannot come fast enough for the insurance companies because humans have proven that they are terrible drivers on average. Of course, 93% of all Americans say they are better than average drivers. So they have that going for them!

 

[gnuarm]

There is tons of misinformation around but mostly people misinterpret the information available. For example, when Tesla reports "NHTSA’s tests also show that it has the lowest probability of injury of all cars the safety agency has ever tested." what does that mean exactly? It doesn't mean what it says without a qualifier. The other factor required to be able to make that statement is to know how likely it is to be in an accident in a Tesla which does depend on drivers, but also depends on the car. Cars have handling characteristics, but I believe I have already pointed out that the instrument cluster on a Tesla is like operating a pin ball machine while driving. So there are factors about the car that can easily increase the likelihood of being in an accident, not the least of which are the many beta features.

Then there is the issue of what does it mean for the car to have been tested to be the "best" the NHTSA has ever tested? It means just that, it is better... but how much better? These days nearly all cars are pretty durn good at minimizing injury in accidents, in particular, the exact accidents tested by the NHTSA. A small change to the test parameters and the results can be very different. This has been shown many times. So "better" may not be significantly better than the other cars tested, but more importantly, it may not mean better in the real world where accidents happen across a spectrum and not in the neatly specified tests the NHTSA provides.

The insurance companies have tons of data on cars and accidents. So yes, I believe they have a very clear idea of the risks and the frequencies of accidents for each and every car type. When they don't have good information, that's when they go out of business.

 

[StealthP3D]

Here's a recent parking lot accident near where I live that would not have happened using summon (because Summon easily recognizes pedestrians in it's path):

Car hits 2 women in Auburn McDonald's parking lot; 1 airlifted

AUBURN, Wash. - Two women were injured - one of them seriously - when they were struck by a car while walking through a McDonald's parking lot in Auburn, police said.

Officers and medics responded to the scene, in the 1400 block of Lake Tapps Parkway SE, at around 7 p.m. Thursday after receiving reports of a car-pedestrian accident, said Cmdr. Steve Stocker of the Auburn police.

The vehicle hit the women at low speed, but one of them fell after being struck and hit her head against the pavement. She was airlifted to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle in serious condition.

The other woman sustained a minor injury and was taken to Auburn Hospital. Both women are in their 40s.

The driver told police that he did not see the two women, possibly due to the sun in his eyes. He remained at the scene after the accident and cooperated with the investigation. There is no evidence that he was impaired, Stocker said.

Here's another recent parking lot accident near my home:
Car hits ACE Hardware in Thriftway parking lot | Vashon-Maury Island Beachcomber

Remember, these are going on every day, all over the country. It's much safer to have Summon do the driving in a parking lot. Granted, Summon hasn't been perfected yet (still in Beta) but anything has to be better than the bloody mess that happens without it!

Humans, on average, are such terrible drivers they probably shouldn't be allowed to navigate parking lots without showing they are at least as safe as a driverless Tesla on Summon.

 

[Tam]

...So when they say their rates for Tesla cars are higher...

There's another post from @Jazz_MIII showing that Tesla has lower premium, not higher from Geico

2018 BMW 640I: $1,029.20
2019 Tesla Model 3: $479.50

Sure that BMW 640I is more expensive than Model 3 but it's 1 year older than Model 3 and Model 3's premium is no way unaffordable as claimed that Tesla's accidents are higher.

 

[Magnets!]

Seriously, $5,000 of property damage liability coverage?

 

[Jazz_MIII]

Seriously, $5,000 of property damage liability coverage?

We just made sure we have "full" coverage to satisfy our lease/loan requirements.

 

[Jazz_MIII]

There's another post from @Jazz_MIII showing that Tesla has lower premium, not higher from Geico

2018 BMW 640I: $1,029.20
2019 Tesla Model 3: $479.50

Sure that BMW 640I is more expensive than Model 3 but it's 1 year older than Model 3 and Model 3's premium is no way unaffordable as claimed that Tesla's accidents are higher.

I should clarify here....that the BMW owner does have a ticket on their account, so the premiums are higher as a result. I think they stay higher for a 2-year period if I remember correctly.