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Why I gave up and bought a Prius Prime
- Thread starter Seamless
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N5329K
Active Member
Completely understand your decision, even if I don't like the looks of the Prius any more than I like the looks of the Bolt. But looks are subjective. What's not subjective is this: the savings a Model 3 offers over the Prius are very, very small (in my case, they wouldn't pay for the NEMA 15/40 before three years). Picking the right car for the mission and the budget is a mix of heart and head. I hope you chose wisely for your own mix.
Robin
Robin
N5329K
Active Member
Not my experience, and I own two. What I do notice is that folks who want to speed don't like any car that is driving the limit to be ahead of them (they have a point when that car- Prius or otherwise- is dozing along in the left lane).
Robin
dhrivnak
Active Member
True as we have a Volt and used to have a Prius. The Prius was a fine car that treated us well and had very low maintenance. But the Volt is much more fun. I say my Volt towing our camper (2000 lb popup) has the same acceleration of our Prius. But for highway driving one cannot beat the efficiency of the Prius, unless of course you insist on pulling a camper.
I strongly considered the Volt. In the end, two things stopped me. One -- I got a lot more useful technological bells and whistles for less money with the Prius. If I'm gonna pay 39k for a well-equipped Volt, well, hello Model 3! Two -- every experience I've had with a GM was either bad or unnecessarily expensive (I've personally had 3 over the years, and my family drove nothing else). My first car was a Chevette, if that tells you anything. A Volt felt like a big risk in terms of reliability and longevity. And actually, there's three -- the fuel efficiency vs a consistently charged Prius is simply not as good.
And I have to say -- I've driven an 04 Prius for the last almost four years, and my commute to work in Vermont is mostly accomplished in the left lane, passing lots of other cars. I really enjoy the interactive nature of driving a Prius. It's really quite easy to move at a very good clip in them, particularly through the roller coaster of southern Vermont. I don't find the inclines an issue at all. You put the pedal down going up, lose your MPG like crazy, then get it back on the back side of the hill. Sure, they're not gonna beat anything off the line, but I don't really care about that. And my total for repair bills in the past four years? Zero dollars. Oil changes, tire rotations, and a battery -- all normal maintenance. Nothing else of any kind ever went wrong. Hard to want a non-Prius in the wake of that.
The Prime -- well, I drove it in full EV mode for an entire trip for the first time today. The acceleration was a lot of fun. I didn't find it lacking at all.
But I still bet a Volt is a great drive. They sound like contenders for sure.
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What? $16k for that price I want one too. Is it a new 2017? Or used? What state are you in? I’m in dreaded Los Angeles California.
Yep, $16k is a convincing argument! It's a new 2017. Mind you, that's figuring in state (Massachusetts) rebate and federal incentives after an out-the-door total of $22k.
I'm also a longtime member of Prius Chat, and the bad news is that the Northeast is home to deals like this, whereas the left coast, particularly CA (and specifically LA) remains high. Some people on there have bought cars here and had them transported west, or even flown here and driven home.
T34ME
Active Member
Agree. I'm a gear head from way back and have been waiting for over 10 years for a Tesla to come into my price range. This thread IMO would be like me saying "wow the Ford Mustang is so much bang for the buck now that they have independent rear suspension I think I'm going to get a 2018 Mustang GT instead of the Model 3."
I think the point of such things is clear in a place whose express purpose is discussion. I'm here to find out what people think; to get a sense of others' opinions and thought processes around the central theme of Tesla electric vehicles. I have been deeply invested in what TMC has been up to, and I made a different choice because of changing circumstances and thinking. Perhaps you're not interested in that, and that's fine. With all due respect, if you don't find it an interesting point of discussion, you can skip it.
A Prius Prime is a partially electric vehicle. It is by no means the same thing as saying "I've chosen a toaster" or "I'm buying a stagecoach," or "I'm buying a Mustang." It's not apples and oranges.
I hope you enjoy your M3. And I hope that eventually, I'll be in the Tesla club as well.
Our fleet average for our Volts hovers around 380 miles per gallon of gasoline for 3 Volts. Including all sales taxes, incentives, and rebates, they were between $25.5, and $28k new.
The Volt was on the road with lithium batteries batteries and a 149 hp electric motor back when the Prius was still using NiMH and had no PHEV variant, and I believe a new, larger 80hp electric motor. When the PHEV variant was released, it was a joke to appease CARB. 6 miles electric range if you crept along at bicycle speeds. Still NiMH. Toyota originally lied about the Prius power output and had to change it. Not sure if they are still lying. They also mislead folk by gaming the EPA system with their PHEVs. By completing only the loops they can complete under pure EV power and listing that as their MPGe EV mode, they can inflate their economy.
To put the power issue in perspective, running both the gasoline and electric motors, the Prime hits 60mph in 10 seconds. Without gasoline, the Prime takes over 12 seconds. The Volt hits 60 in 7.5 seconds. Without the gasoline engine running.
- Toyota claims 121 HP of electric power, and weighs 3378, for 27.9 lb/hp to yield 12.2 seconds to 60mph in EV mode.
- Chevy claims 149 HP of electric power, and weighs 3523, for 23.6 lb/hp to yield 7.5 seconds to 60mph in EV mode.
But still, when the majority of Americans are asked to name an electric car, they name the Prius, and this dates back before the PiP existed. Toyota certainly won in the marketing department. They have a marginal compliance car, and an H2 car that doesn't sell, but are known as the greenest car company on earth, even though they sell some of the most gas guzzling vehicles on the market:
Compare Side-by-Side
Note that I selected the 420HP versions of the Escalade SUV, and GMC Denali pickup. Far more powerful and larger engines than the Toyotas.
This is the only reason Toyota sells the Prime. Their CEO acknowledges that EVs make no sense, so they make a car just similar enough to a EV to be able to sell the thirstiest trucks on the market. They are exactly as green as the government forces them to be. Even when the Prius was released so that Toyota could become The Electric Hybrid Car and the Greenest Car Company, the Honda Insight was actually greener, but lost the Green Marketing contest to the dirtier car.
But if I were dead set again all things GM, and would accept a conventional hybrid design as my PHEV, I still would have chosen the Honda Clarity PHEV, which while is not superior to the Volt, it is certainly superior to the Prime by a wide margin. Or even the Hyundai:
Compare Side-by-Side
The Clarity based on performance, room, and range, the Hyundai on price and range.
Sandollars
I bleed Cardinal
Interesting lot of opinions! I really appreciate it.
A Prius Prime is not a Tesla. That is true. But the main driver for me in having an EV or hybrid is what I'm doing for the environment. A Prius Prime is also, from behind the wheel, not nearly so sluggish, lame, or ugly as they may appear from the cockpit of a Tesla!I'm enjoying it immensely.
And the toast is delicious!
Having owned and driven one as my primary commute vehicle for a year before handing it down to my daughter in college and buying a MS, I agree with your comment above. In fact the Prime is good looking to me. It's a great car and quite peppy for a "Pre-Us". I enjoyed the heck out of mine. Oh and for those of you who are labeling it as a "cheap" car? IIRC, the one I bought was about 35 grand. That's not Cheap in anyone's book. Personally, I think it's the best and most reliable Hybrid on the market today. It is almost inevitably the final stepping stone to a full BEV. It was for me.
My path to conversion:
2010 Prius 4
2012 Camry Hybrid
2014 Lexus ES300h
2016 Prius Touring
2017 Prius Prime Advanced
2018 Tesla Model S 100D
I will never look back but I enjoyed the journey immensely and have high regard for Toyota vehicles, especially their Hybrids even if they don't have their heart in it. They make great quality cars.
I applaud your decision. Obviously for whatever reason(s), you are not willing to take the next step yet but one thing is certain; you will.
Until then, enjoy your Prime!
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
The economics of driving a Prius are pretty good and it has some Eco benefits, but the driving experience is horrible.
Fair enough. I still don't understand your logic though. I'm admittedly biased given my 12 year running Tesla obsession.
Edit: I have to add that I would never in a million years vote for Toyota with my dollar given their anti EV marketing campaign. That is a big factor for me.
Sandollars
I bleed Cardinal
Check your fly... Your ignorance is showing and I see it's mixed with a considerable amount of prejudice....
If you have ever driven a Prius, you would know this statement is utterly false. I drove a 15 mile long 6-7% incline daily with Prius models (2010, 2012, 2016, and 2017) and they have ZERO issues getting up hills.
The stigma comes from the original models and has just stuck.
I cannot and will not vouch for Prius drivers as some of them help exacerbate the stigma with their illogical driving habits and unwarranted Holier-than-thou attitudes, but I assure you it's not the car. Well, at least not the car if it's newer than a 2010 as these are the only ones with which I have experience.
I'm in California and a Prime lowest price I find is:
$25,697 (discounted from $28k)
Tax $2056
Rebates $4502+1500+450 = $6452
= $21,301 plus registration.
However, that might be a loss leader. Only One At This Price.
For me, the performance and handling alone of the Volt is worth $6,700 difference.
Note though, that is the fully loaded price of the Volt, and not the loaded price of the Prime.
GM is making a profit selling the Volt. Toyota is not when selling the Prime. Toyota will adjust the price as required to get the carbon credits needed. Adding a lithium battery, on-board charging, EVSE, bigger electric motor, bigger inverter, carbon fiber weight reduction, and other costs only altered the price of the Prime $3500 when compared to the Prius. The battery costs alone are higher than that.
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