Why Tesla pursued non rain sensor auto-wipers?

[thegruf]

Pick a figure, but say that the rain sensor and loom cost Tesla $10. Sensors may need their own controller in which case another $10.

If they sell $250K cars per year as seems highly probable, that's $2.5M in savings per year.
Doubt it cost that much to develop the software, and not only that it is one less gadget to fail, so Tesla will just keep winning.

Might have been very late, but works well and does look like a shrewd move on Tesla's part?

 

[JHWJR]

It's both a test and demonstration of AI and what Tesla can increasingly do by having its cameras look around and pass the information through the computers.

 

[Derek Kessler]

Doubtful the sensor even costs $10. It's a really basic concept: an IR light that reflects off the inside of the windshield, and a sensor that detects the amount of reflected light. Water on the glass refracts the light and reduces the reflection received, this triggering the wipers.

What they did makes sense from a "why" perspective: the Autopilot cameras need to be able to detect that they're being obstructed and need cleaned. Using them as water detectors makes sense.

As an AP2 Model S owner, it's frustrating that it took them a year to figure it out, though.

 

[City]

Two weeks ago I was on a two lane highway at 1:30 AM in the rain. The auto wipers didn't function until there was on coming traffic. Without the lights coming through the glass, it doesn't seem to detect water on the windshield. Highbeams didn't help. Perhaps greater sensitivity would be in order.

 

[Chaserr]

it's frustrating that it took them a year to figure it out, though.

It is, but it's also interesting to realize the point of the neural net is to train a computer how to figure it out on its own, and it only took them a year to get that learning tech going on production cars already in the wild.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

In my admittedly fairly limited testing of the new rain sensing wipers on an AP 2.0 Model S they seem to work quite good, IMO.

Which is more than I can say for the Auto High Beams which, in my opinion, are still unusable on my AP 2.0 car and worked infinitely better on my previous AP 1.0 car. I'm expecting they will improve over time.

 

[Haxster]

Yes, it took them a long time to get them working (an issue with not having a close-focusing lens?), but so far, they seem to work quite well.

Perhaps they gave up trying to get the forward-facing windshield camera to work and switched to the hidden driver-facing camera to detect eye-squint plus an outside humidity sensor.

 

[DriveMe]

Why Tesla pursued non rain sensor auto-wipers?

Not because it is easy, but because it is hard!

 

[Derek Kessler]

Two weeks ago I was on a two lane highway at 1:30 AM in the rain. The auto wipers didn't function until there was on coming traffic. Without the lights coming through the glass, it doesn't seem to detect water on the windshield. Highbeams didn't help. Perhaps greater sensitivity would be in order.

I also noticed this on a late and wet drive. Parts of the highway didn't have overhead illumination and the wipers never fired. Granted, Autopilot tracked true through this and it wasn't pouring rain, so perhaps the threshold is something like a stubborn human's: I can still see, this is fine.

 

[Asterix187]

Last time I checked I didn’t have a rain sensor but I can tell if it raining with my eyes. It’s much better to detect rain this way as I can also tell if it’s foggy, snowing, misty etc. All of which I couldn’t if I had no eyes and just a rain sensor on the top of my head.

 

[Swift]

Last time I checked I didn’t have a rain sensor but I can tell if it raining with my eyes. It’s much better to detect rain this way as I can also tell if it’s foggy, snowing, misty etc. All of which I couldn’t if I had no eyes and just a rain sensor on the top of my head.

Agreed but I’m guessing it also may be a requirement for FSD whenever that happens with these cars.

 

[Swift]

Two weeks ago I was on a two lane highway at 1:30 AM in the rain. The auto wipers didn't function until there was on coming traffic. Without the lights coming through the glass, it doesn't seem to detect water on the windshield. Highbeams didn't help. Perhaps greater sensitivity would be in order.

Same experience here. The problem is not solved yet and may not be able to be solved with the current hardware. The camera needs light for contrast. Without the IR emitter or oncoming traffic at night, it just doesn’t work. I’m sure they are well aware of that and should have put it in the release notes.

 

[Hugh Mannity]

Last time I checked I didn’t have a rain sensor but I can tell if it raining with my eyes. It’s much better to detect rain this way as I can also tell if it’s foggy, snowing, misty etc. All of which I couldn’t if I had no eyes and just a rain sensor on the top of my head.

“You know; I have one simple request, and that is to have Teslas with frikkin working rain sensors attached to their frikkin windshields”.

Apologies, couldn’t resist.

 

[Derek Kessler]

I’m sure they are well aware of that and should have put it in the release notes.

I guess this is why they called it a "beta".

 

[whitex]

Perhaps they gave up trying to get the forward-facing windshield camera to work and switched to the hidden driver-facing camera to detect eye-squint plus an outside humidity sensor.

Neh, they just get the weather off the Internet and adjust the wiper speed per rain fall rate.

 

[Chaserr]

That wouldn't be a bad idea considering bright fog doesn't trigger the headlights yet. Might as well make use of the internet connection.

 

[Saghost]

I'm thinking it's about real estate - the triple camera module uses the space that the old rain sensor was in, so they'd have to expand the blocked section to make room for it - and if they are processing all of those images anyway, why not use the camera?

 

[Swift]

I guess this is why they called it a "beta".

Hahahaha just like AP which has been a “beta” for how long? I’m sure this feature (which was supposed to be delivered on 12/31/2016 as not “beta”) will still be in “beta” when people’s leases are up or sell their cars. And does being a beta somehow free Tesla from having to provide adequate and responsible release notes?

 

[bob_p]

One theory...

Adding the rain sensor requires the sensor, positioned in the rear view window housing, and wiring harness connections.

When planning for AP2 and adding more sensors to the rear view mirror, Tesla engineering evidently believed they could reduce hardware and save a little $ by using the AP sensors to detect rain.

When the MobilEye divorce happened, Tesla rapidly rolled out the AP2 hardware - at the time, it was a surprise to almost everyone when AP2 was quickly added to manufacturing.

It's possible that in the rush to get MobilEye hardware out of car - the rain sensors were a low priority - and by the time they realized they couldn't easily use the AP sensors to detect rain - it was too late to do anything about it, other than removing "automatic wipers" from the website marketing.

While the AP2 rain sensing seems to work reasonably well (other than the wipers starting up while the driver's door is open), it will periodically do an unnecessary wipe when no rain is present. Though we also see that periodically with our pre-AP2 Tesla - with rain sensors.

 

[bambam4171]

It might be a 10$ item. Integrating it into the overall system is a different thing. That could double or triple the cost. Also, if AI understands it rains and what effect that can have on pictures recorded this might be helpful for picture analysis and thus lead to better AI decisions.