Why Tesla Will Fail

[ivengo]

I had service several times in Austin, TX and mobile service in Michigan (coordinated from Cleveland). Both were of outstanding quality. People at both locations were pleasant and cared about their work and customer satisfaction.

 

[FlatSix911]

Good luck with that one. Porsche has substantial problems with new technology also. All manufacturers do.

Amen to that ... Google Porsche IMS issue for details

 

[nevadacitydude]

This is why Tesla will fail -- not this year, not next year, but in a few years. It's just one story, but unfortunately it's representative.

Mid-december, the latch fails shut on my rear right door. I call up the service center I've been using to tell them that the latch is stuck shut (can't be opened from the inside or outside). They tell me that top management at Tesla (aka idiots) have told them they can't service my area any more and that I have to be directed to the "New York Mobile Service Team".

Now, there's no upstate NY service center. This is because Tesla top management (aka idiots) have *chosen* not to build one. It is legal for them to build one -- there is a limit on the number of stores, but no limit on the number of service centers. They are lying about this to their technicians, incidentally.

So, the service center I've been using refuses to make an appointment and says the NY mobile service team will call me. They refuse to give me the phone number for the NY mobile service team. They say they'll report my problem and order the part to be delivered to the NY mobile service team. I emphasize that it's the *latch*.

The NY mobile service team doesn't call me back after several weeks. I call the service center again and yell at them. This time I manage to get a phone number for the NY mobile service team. I call them. They say "our computer system says we tried to call you". They never tried to call me -- their computer system is lying. They say the parts came in a week ago (but they never bothered to call me....) I tell them *again* (since it's different people) that the problem is that the *latch* is stuck and ask them to make sure they have ordered the parts for the latch. "Omar" assures me that they have the parts for the latch. At this point, about four weeks after I first called, I am finally able to make an appointment. There is then a further delay because my schedule doesn't allow for an appointment in the next week (but would have in the earlier weeks which Tesla wasted).

Come today, the service tech shows up. He doesn't have the parts for the latch, because nobody ever wrote down that they were supposed to get the parts for the latch. Complete waste of time. I yell at the NY mobile service team guy (Omar), who lied to me, who now claims that the order regarding the stuck latch was never entered in his computer. I ask and he won't give me his manager's number. Or the number of the idiot in top management who ordered that we get all our mobile service through this idiot division. He says he'll talk to his manager -- we'll see.

This is par for the course with Tesla service. I have been dealing with this crap for five years, and it gets worse and worse every time. Meanwhile, the software team breaks basic functionality in updates (such as USB music playback).

This is going to kill the company. Not now, but as soon as there are other decent electric cars on the market -- ones where you can go to *independent service shops*.

They've had five years to fix this sort of crap and they've only made it worse. My advice to investors at this point is to hold on now, but dump the stock before 2020 if they don't fix the chronic and ever-worsening service problems.

It's not the bottom-line technicians. They're all fine. It's top management failure. There's no internal communications: information does not get passed from one person to another, and any one person who screws up the information ruins everything. The only way to get good service is to talk directly to the service tech who is going to do the work on your car. The only way to get a software bug fixed is to find the programmer who is responsible for fixing it. And Tesla does their best to *prevent* you from talking to the people you need to talk to.

W

 

[Akikiki]

wow, master of the understatement.

 

[nevadacitydude]

This is why Tesla will fail -- not this year, not next year, but in a few years. It's just one story, but unfortunately it's representative.

Mid-december, the latch fails shut on my rear right door. I call up the service center I've been using to tell them that the latch is stuck shut (can't be opened from the inside or outside). They tell me that top management at Tesla (aka idiots) have told them they can't service my area any more and that I have to be directed to the "New York Mobile Service Team".

Now, there's no upstate NY service center. This is because Tesla top management (aka idiots) have *chosen* not to build one. It is legal for them to build one -- there is a limit on the number of stores, but no limit on the number of service centers. They are lying about this to their technicians, incidentally.

So, the service center I've been using refuses to make an appointment and says the NY mobile service team will call me. They refuse to give me the phone number for the NY mobile service team. They say they'll report my problem and order the part to be delivered to the NY mobile service team. I emphasize that it's the *latch*.

The NY mobile service team doesn't call me back after several weeks. I call the service center again and yell at them. This time I manage to get a phone number for the NY mobile service team. I call them. They say "our computer system says we tried to call you". They never tried to call me -- their computer system is lying. They say the parts came in a week ago (but they never bothered to call me....) I tell them *again* (since it's different people) that the problem is that the *latch* is stuck and ask them to make sure they have ordered the parts for the latch. "Omar" assures me that they have the parts for the latch. At this point, about four weeks after I first called, I am finally able to make an appointment. There is then a further delay because my schedule doesn't allow for an appointment in the next week (but would have in the earlier weeks which Tesla wasted).

Come today, the service tech shows up. He doesn't have the parts for the latch, because nobody ever wrote down that they were supposed to get the parts for the latch. Complete waste of time. I yell at the NY mobile service team guy (Omar), who lied to me, who now claims that the order regarding the stuck latch was never entered in his computer. I ask and he won't give me his manager's number. Or the number of the idiot in top management who ordered that we get all our mobile service through this idiot division. He says he'll talk to his manager -- we'll see.

This is par for the course with Tesla service. I have been dealing with this crap for five years, and it gets worse and worse every time. Meanwhile, the software team breaks basic functionality in updates (such as USB music playback).

This is going to kill the company. Not now, but as soon as there are other decent electric cars on the market -- ones where you can go to *independent service shops*.

They've had five years to fix this sort of crap and they've only made it worse. My advice to investors at this point is to hold on now, but dump the stock before 2020 if they don't fix the chronic and ever-worsening service problems.

It's not the bottom-line technicians. They're all fine. It's top management failure. There's no internal communications: information does not get passed from one person to another, and any one person who screws up the information ruins everything. The only way to get good service is to talk directly to the service tech who is going to do the work on your car. The only way to get a software bug fixed is to find the programmer who is responsible for fixing it. And Tesla does their best to *prevent* you from talking to the people you need to talk to.

Well

W

Well, Negative Nancy, thank you for your downer opinion. I think Tesla is a great company, We just took delivery of our second Model S. We have been completely pleased. And, we salute and support Tesla for doing the impossible: starting a car company from the ground up. Its highly probable you’re just a shill for one of the dinosaurs, like GM, Ford or Chrysler, and trying to undermine the competition. Go away!

 

[BenT]

We have a Tesla mobile ranger here in Adelaide, Australia. The nearest service centre is in Melbourne which is over 800 km away. The great thing is that I have the direct phone number to my mobile ranger so there is no real danger of miscommunication because I am speaking directly to the person who fixes my car rather than going through a call center or third party. I have had some issues fixed at home while I have also dropped the car to a local workshop at times which the ranger uses for some services.

 

[JRP3]

Well


Well, Negative Nancy, thank you for your downer opinion. I think Tesla is a great company, We just took delivery of our second Model S. We have been completely pleased. And, we salute and support Tesla for doing the impossible: starting a car company from the ground up. Its highly probable you’re just a shill for one of the dinosaurs, like GM, Ford or Chrysler, and trying to undermine the competition. Go away!

Neroden has been on this site much longer than you and a Model S much longer than most people. You should check your facts before making ridiculous accusations.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Anybody that comes into my company, yelling at an employee, I show them the door.

 

[claudelaval]

Yep.

I was tolerant of this sort of stuff when Tesla was a new company. Five years later, it's gotten *worse*. The problem is 100% management (the bottom-end techs are all good). Elon undervalues middle management skills at his peril. If they can't fix their endemic communications problems in the service departments -- and it's gotten continuously worse over five years -- then opening up the service manuals to independent shops would ease the burden. But apparently they're also unwilling to do that for no-good-reason.

I'd buy an inferior electric car (with the minimum required range specs and thermal battery control, of course) just to avoid dealing with this *bullcrap*. Others will make that choice too.

So far (my 13th months with the MS) I can't complaint with the service in Montreal BUT I found the location of the service center very poorly maintain. Tesla MS an X are the the upper bracket of luxury and you expect to have service center with all the bells and whistle like a Lexus service center do. Let's hope they open more service center when the M3 arrive here...

 

[claudelaval]

Anybody that comes into my company, yelling at an employee, I show them the door.

If the customer have to yell don't trow him out but try to understand is frustration first.

 

[Jays200]

We bought in to Tesla knowing we'd have problems. My nearest service centre is 3200kms away and when we got out MX in July there was no local ranger.

I look at it as an opportunity to help Tesla grow. I've had direct communications with Jon McNeil via this forum and with Australia's top man. Tesla has been very helpful and understanding and have never said no to anything. Our car was even held up on delivery whilst Tesla flew a new 100kWh battery out from the States as a precaution to replace our non faulty one.

We've got quite a few minor quality fit and finish issues outstanding but we'll get there and Tesla will be better for it.

Perhaps you, OP, should go back to an ICE car and be happier with that inferior product. Not me. No ICE car for us ever again.

 

[FreeOfPge]

Yep.

I was tolerant of this sort of stuff when Tesla was a new company. Five years later, it's gotten *worse*. The problem is 100% management (the bottom-end techs are all good). Elon undervalues middle management skills at his peril. If they can't fix their endemic communications problems in the service departments -- and it's gotten continuously worse over five years -- then opening up the service manuals to independent shops would ease the burden. But apparently they're also unwilling to do that for no-good-reason.

I'd buy an inferior electric car (with the minimum required range specs and thermal battery control, of course) just to avoid dealing with this *bullcrap*. Others will make that choice too.

I love LOVE Tesla but the service as become ridiculously bad. Basically, expect your problems to be "noted in your account" or "escalated", followed up by a generic phone call (person reading solutions from a screen) the next day. If the problem is not solved at this point it will be further escalated. You'll then get a generic email one or two days later stating that your problem is a know issue and will be fixed in the future.

If you order from the online store and get the wrong item, forget about returns. They do not return emails, voice mails or snail mail letters. You will not get the correct part replaced. Try reordering (and paying a second time), keep your fingers crossed - maybe you'll get the right part the second time.

 

[JRP3]

Perhaps you, OP, should go back to an ICE car and be happier with that inferior product.

So your answer to a terrible Tesla service experience is not that Tesla should fix what is wrong with their system but that customers should abandon the brand. Hopefully no one at Tesla shares that same attitude.

 

[Jays200]

Takes two to tango.

We're only getting the OPs side of the story, including yelling at the ranger.

From what I've read, yep, the OP should abandon Tesla and go back to Lexus.

 

[CBPfromTN]

It's called "growing pains." All companies experience things/issues like this and eventually things get worked out. This post does not affect me at all. Tesla is a new company. From what I know from people I personally know, there has been a lot of improvement in general. Sure, there are always going to be unhappy owners of every car brand. I wouldn't be so fast to make such dire predictions....but that's just me.

 

[marchino]

We bought in to Tesla knowing we'd have problems. My nearest service centre is 3200kms away and when we got out MX in July there was no local ranger.

I look at it as an opportunity to help Tesla grow. I've had direct communications with Jon McNeil via this forum and with Australia's top man. Tesla has been very helpful and understanding and have never said no to anything. Our car was even held up on delivery whilst Tesla flew a new 100kWh battery out from the States as a precaution to replace our non faulty one.

We've got quite a few minor quality fit and finish issues outstanding but we'll get there and Tesla will be better for it.

Perhaps you, OP, should go back to an ICE car and be happier with that inferior product. Not me. No ICE car for us ever again.

Hi Jayson,
I have to disagree with you. Tesla's communication is poor. They promise contact and don't deliver. I was promised a call "the next day" and still didn't get a call until I reminded them three times in a week.
Cheers, Mark

 

[CBPfromTN]

I think you need to change your tag line from "Happy Model S Owner" to something else



Actually, I have had very good service from GM vehicles over the years. In my experience, the brands that have caused me the most grief are Honda and Toyota.

Same for me, except I owned a 1999 Jaguar XJ8 Vanden Plas and all I ever heard was, "Is it in the shop ALL the time? Is there always something wrong with it?" To which I would always respond: "Best car I EVER had." I drove it for 17 years, a few very minor repairs over the 17 years, only did yearly maintenance. Sure, Jaguar used to be problematic. Then Ford purchased Jaguar and all of those pesky issues ended. Truly, after owning Volvo, BMW, Jaguar, Toyota, 2 Mercedes...I still have to say my Jaguar was the best of them all. NOW, I am getting a Model S. I fully expect it to be an excellent car and a few people with issues are not going to affect my personal opinion OR experience.

 

[MXWing]

Tesla customer service in San Diego is terrible

• You can't call the San Diego center directly. You have to contact a call-center who screens you to determine if you are worthy of talking directly to the San Diego center.
• Once you reach the San Diego center you do not have a single point of contact
  • You get a generic email contact or a generic text contact - who may or may not respond
  • Promised calls back to give you an update don’t happen
• The work order is usually hand-written and you are not given a copy of it when you drop-off your Tesla for service
  • After the work is done you are emailed an invoice which may or may not agree with the items on the work order

It is amazing that a high tech company like Tesla has such poor customer service software. My veterinarian’s office has better customer service software and is much easier to deal with.

After dealing with Tesla service in San Diego for over a year, I see slight improvement, but the reality is that they still have a lot of improvement to make. This is not rocket science (SpaceX) it is vehicle maintenance.

I was able to call the San Diego Service Center in December of 2016 as I went there to buy touch up paint. Not sure if they changed it to route calls through a central center. If they do, that is actually typical of all larger organizations now.

Also is it not ridiculous to compare your vet office to the entire Tesla service organization? How many parts from how many international distributors need to be ordered, stock, transited and allocated across thousands of sites?

I also imagine SpaceX might have an easier time than Tesla. Imagine how much less efficient engineers would be if they dealt with customer requests all day long? Some complaints are legitimate, but some of what I've seen here are just plain nutty and unreasonable.

If they don't want to be asked/expected to do this (Which, they do, very often. I've watched Eric pull the logs from the car and looked over them myself), they should give us ACCESS to the tools to do it ourselves. I am more than willing to buy Tesla toolbox, but Tesla won't allow me to, so that leaves me with having to have the service center pull the logs and relay the information to me. I don't even need them to analyze it, I just want them to provide the information already stored on the car.

A normal car owned by a person like me would have a diagnostic that has a very well established standard of protocols on it that allows me to see any errors the various computers in the car may have stored. While the tools to access all of the information may cost a lot of money, they're available.

If Tesla would sell me the tools to do it, I'd do it myself and not expect anything from Tesla service.

I don't consider $30 for an hour's access to the tool an unreasonable price. Most procedures i'd be doing in my driveway (coolant change, brake fluid change, etc) could be done within that hour window. It would also give me plenty of time to run the test on the HVAC system to figure out which parts aren't working correctly.

Cookie: You are probably about 1000 times more technical at being hands on regarding a vehicle than I am and the majority of owners. Being technical, I can see your frustration that if only you had access to x and y, you could just fix almost anything yourself! The problem is you can't extrapolate your particular skillset to the entirety of the Tesla owning population. Lots of people can do lots of damage tinkering with stuff they should not be doing. So probably for the sake of the entire ecosystem, they keep a tight lid on such things. I mean, if I had their toolbox I might be tempted to unlock extra battery capacity, other software features etc.

I am glad this thread exists, and I hope they pick up on it, and do something about it. Because once the competitors catch up (I mean they just have to stuff some laptop batteries in the floor, that idea was genius, but now everyone knows what to do if they choose to do it) Tesla will have a hard time keeping people if they treat them like they treated me. For me I suppose I will get the Model 3, but after that, it will be a BMW, Mercedes, or whichever other brand has managed to make a cool-ish fast-ish sedan. Or if the Tesla Pickup is super awesome I have to have that one, and I'll buy the laser machine and build my own canbus tools. I am already pretty well on my way with that last one, I have developed the 'Scan My Tesla' app.

I think you are cursed and I think I'd probably be anti-Tesla (despite being the biggest bull here) if it truly is as bad as you describe. My experiences are not perfect but I am more than satisfied overall. I think you might want to try a different service center or get the mobile number of the regional manager or something.

Anybody that comes into my company, yelling at an employee, I show them the door.

I've had customers come in yelling at employees that I would have physically pummeled if I could have gotten away with it. But NOPE, I just separate them and use my sweet gentle reasoning voice. You calm the customer down, win them over and you turn a bad situation around 180 degrees.

There's a good documentary I recommend that is narrated by Patrick Swayze on good customer service. It's called "Roadhouse" or something like that.

 

[MXWing]

Takes two to tango.

We're only getting the OPs side of the story, including yelling at the ranger.

From what I've read, yep, the OP should abandon Tesla and go back to Lexus.

ALREADY - people have replied saying they worked with the very same personnel the OP did and were happy with them.

It does take two to tango and there are two sides to every story.

I've seen already here many instances of

* People with unrealistic expectations
* People failing to disclose aspects where it is THEIR problem
* People who don't know how to manage achieving resolutions
* People making enemies instead of friends
* People insisting on running into the same brick walls repeatedly and not finding a detour
* People extrapolating their personal silly anecdotes across the ENTIRE Tesla organization
* People not understanding negative confirmation bias, being trapped in a echo chamber with their vision tunneled.

 

[Allanf]

It's not the bottom-line technicians. They're all fine. It's top management failure. There's no internal communications: information does not get passed from one person to another, and any one person who screws up the information ruins everything. The only way to get good service is to talk directly to the service tech who is going to do the work on your car. The only way to get a software bug fixed is to find the programmer who is responsible for fixing it. And Tesla does their best to *prevent* you from talking to the people you need to talk to.

This is a classic case of YMMV. I have had terrific service from Jacob, our Wisconsin Ranger, and the Highland Park, IL service center.