Why Tesla Will Fail

[FreeOfPge]

Some are taking this criticism too personally. Before attackig others please look at their profiles and past posts.

Many of us want Tesla to succeed. Many of us have been around TMC for a while. Many of us own Tesla cars. Many of us own Tesla stock.

We are not shills. We are not shorts. We are not pro-ice. We are not new to electric vehicles.

We are expressing our viewpoints because we care about this company's mission. We care about this company's goals. We care about this company's success.

Our critiques are not attempts to destroy Tesla. Our critiques are attempts to strengthen Tesla.

The problems that we are willing to accept are not problems your neighbor will. Please keep that in mind.

Vent - finished.

 

[CBPfromTN]

Some are taking this criticism too personally. Before attackig others please look at their profiles and past posts.

Many of us want Tesla to succeed. Many of us have been around TMC for a while. Many of us own Tesla cars. Many of us own Tesla stock.

We are not shills. We are not shorts. We are not pro-ice. We are not new to electric vehicles.

We are expressing our viewpoints because we care about this company's mission. We care about this company's goals. We care about this company's success.

Our critiques are not attempts to destroy Tesla. Our critiques are attempts to strengthen Tesla.

The problems that we are willing to accept are not problems your neighbor will. Please keep that in mind.

Vent - finished.

While I agree with you, wholeheartedly, I still say making a blanket statement "Why Tesla Will Fail" is a little extreme when based on one person's experiences. Granted the experiences the OP has had hasn't exactly been satisfactory but I suppose to a lot of people reading it, they feel that it's a bit over the top to predict the failure of a an entire company based on this one person's experience. I'm like you, I would think all of us want Tesla to succeed and I feel Tesla WILL succeed. Not from my own experience but everyone's experience in general that we all hear about and read about etc. I believe that is where the less than positive responses are coming from. One just cannot expect their own experience to sink a company or cause it to succeed. Individual failures SHOULD be taken seriously by Tesla and I for one, would expect that they do take these failures seriously. I do believe there is much more GOOD than bad, too. If I were unhappy with a car and the manufacturer, I wouldn't feel the company was going to fail because my issues weren't addressed properly or in a timely manner. I would just assume that I was extremely unlucky but that more of an exception than the rule. All car dealerships have sold cars that turned out to be problems practically from day one. I'd say those are the minority as I believe people with this bad of an experience with Tesla are. I do not believe for a second that Tesla is going to fail. For such a new company, things have to be "ironed" out and I do believe that Tesla is genuinely working to improve in every aspect and that they are succeeding in that effort.

 

[EchoDelta]

While I agree with you, wholeheartedly, I still say making a blanket statement "Why Tesla Will Fail" is a little extreme when based on one person's experiences.

You disagree, which is fine. Not every post needs to be bent to your viewpoint. Neroden started the thread venting, and pointing at what is a systemic issue from his perspective, not making a theorem that will narrate future events. You could make another thread with "why Tesla won't fail" and many folks will also disagree with your logic in it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Doug Archer]

It won’t fail at all. You just had a bad experience a time your center, which doesn’t seem up to par. SoCal service centers are amazing. They are friendly, fast and efficient, and even will lend you a brand new Model X! Fantastic!!

 

[cwerdna]

For a variety of reasons, all thoroughly discussed on TMC, it's often useful to compare Apple to Tesla. I'm old enough to remember:
...

• Years of horribly named, horribly planned Mac models shotgunned at a confused public. (Quadra, Centris, etc. WTF?)
• Mac clones that cannibalized Apple's own sales.

...
Many times during these painful years, watching Apple stepping on their tail over and over, it was tempting to believe that Apple was doomed. Overall, their vision and their products carried them through. This is no guarantee of Tesla's success, of course, but it's interesting in hindsight to remember just how confused, messed up, and arrogant Apple was at some of their darkest times.

I can't speak to all your bullet points since I'm not a Mac guy but the stuff that I left in was during the reign of various CEOs after Steve Jobs was fired (e.g. Sculley, Michael Spindler, Gil Amelio, ettc.) When Steve Jobs returned and pushed Gil Amelio out, he killed the clones and also REALLY simplified that product line instead of the insanely confusing lines and models they had. That was such a waste of engineering effort and a potentially big inventory risk for Apple. If you use Mactracker, you can see the craziness of that era.

After Jobs returned, remember for awhile they were advertising 3 configs like Good, Better and Best?

Unfortunately w/Jobs dead, it seems like Apple is partially backing away from simple product lines. Look how many models of iPhones they sell in the US at once: iPhone - Compare Models has iPhone SE, 6s, 6S Plus, 7, 7 Plus, 8, 8 Plus and X!

 

[crikescrikes]

[QUOTE="neroden, post: 2536656, member:
*Tesla will fail
*top management at Tesla (aka idiots)
*top management (aka idiots)
*yell at them.
*yell at the NY mobile service team
*(Omar), who lied to me,
*the idiot in top management
*this idiot division.

*This is par for the course with Tesla service. *been dealing with this crap for five years
*it gets worse and worse every time.

*This is going to kill the company.

*My advice dump the stock before 2020

*It's top management failure.
*no internal communications
*information does not get passed
*one person who screws up ruins everything

*The only way to get good service

And Tesla does their best to *prevent* you from talking to the people you need to talk to.[/QUOTE]

So you’re saying that ALL of the technicians are fine - all except Omar because he lied to you?

At your workplace if a customer had an attitude like yours, and posted on a forum all negative exaggerated things about you and your co-workers and about the bad service the customer received for 5 years - are you saying that you would give excellent service to that rude customer who exaggerates the events?

I’m sorry to hear you’re not a happy Model S owner. I suggest you read your post again - I think you might see hints of why you’re not getting the service you want.

All is excellent with the Mobile Service Rangers in my area (hint: If I call them idiots and liars I don’t think I’d get excellent service. I have bad news for you: the customer is not ALWAYS right.

Do you really think investors will take investing advice from a hypocrite “Happy Model S Owner” ...Model S debuted in 2012 which seems to be the only year you’ve been a Happy owner. You’ve had since 2013 (5 years) to change your tag line.

If you own TSLA stock - why wait till 2020 to sell your shares? Do it now.

 

[Brando]

Timelines/schedules. On time or ? Let us go back to 2013 when the GigaFactory idea got a firm start.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/gigafactory.pdf

 

[Fab-fours]

Here in the UK I've so far had great service from their Gatwick Service Centre with well trained staff who listen & are courteous.

Where there's a problem is on their poorly tested, or ill thought-out software updates.

In particular auto-folding wing mirrors which re-open at 30mph, which in Tesla-La land with it's extra wide Boulevards, Parkways & Highways is not a problem; but here on the narrow country lanes with potholes to be navigated by idiots who often drive in oversized SUVs with which they are unable to judge the width, too often venture into the oncoming lane, causing mirror collisions, resulting in expensive repairs – like … $1100+ !

 

[FlyingCookie]

Cookie: You are probably about 1000 times more technical at being hands on regarding a vehicle than I am and the majority of owners. Being technical, I can see your frustration that if only you had access to x and y, you could just fix almost anything yourself! The problem is you can't extrapolate your particular skillset to the entirety of the Tesla owning population. Lots of people can do lots of damage tinkering with stuff they should not be doing. So probably for the sake of the entire ecosystem, they keep a tight lid on such things. I mean, if I had their toolbox I might be tempted to unlock extra battery capacity, other software features etc.

The version of Toolbox sold to shops/owners in Massachusetts doesn’t allow things like that. The majority of normal people don’t even know it exists, like most other car manufacturers tools.

I agree that most owners aren’t like me, but most owners are going to expect calls to be returned and problems to be fixed in a timely manner. Tesla won’t always be able to loan out vehicles, and if a Model 3 has to go into service for a week to only be worked on for a day, with the owner of the car paying for a rental car the whole time, there are going to be problems.

So far, from reading this thread, I’ve found that everyone loves the service centers in SoCal, but there seem to be problems in the “smaller” markets across the country. Whatever Tesla is doing in their homeland needs to be done across the country/world.

I want Tesla to succeed. The world NEEDS Tesla to succeed. I’d hate to see them fail over something silly like customer service or a PR issue, but if they keep up like they are (Poor communication, promising features that never come, unrealistic timelines, etc) other companies will be able to outperform Tesla and they may never get out of being a niche car maker.

Google “Tesla customer service” and look at the articles that come up. Nearly none of the articles that come up put them in a good light. When “Tesla reliability” returns “30% drive unit failure rate” the next search is likely going to be “Tesla customer service.” When that returns “Poor communication and inconsistent service quality” people will look elsewhere before they even test drive the car. Like someone said upthread, it doesn’t matter how good your product is if people never try it or buy it.

 

[Ollie Jones]

This is because Tesla top management (aka idiots) have *chosen* not to build one. It is legal for them to build one -- there is a limit on the number of stores, but no limit on the number of service centers.

Here's a point: in the 20th century, independent vehicle dealers were the solution to this problem of bad field service.

Local dealers have these attributes

1. Local business connections
2. Profit incentives of their own, separate from the factory
3. Answerability to local regulators

These sorts of things give real consequences to the quality of field service.

If Tesla wants to succeed at replacing the local-dealer business model by removing local shops from the value chain, they're going to have to dream up a effective new scheme of consequences for service quality.

Otherwise, I think you're right. In thirty years somebody will be showing off a Model X next to an Edsel at the classic car expo.

If I were them I'd be, quietly, setting up an irregular-operations field service team specifically charged with detecting and coping with screwups and figuring out how to improve processes.

 

[mattjs33]

I’d hate to see them fail over something silly like customer service or a PR issue...

Customer service being of course probably #1 or #2 at least of things a company provides, I'd hardly call it "silly". But I know what you were saying and I agree with your entire post. They've got to get this right or their reputation will preceed them.

Here's a point: in the 20th century, independent vehicle dealers were the solution to this problem of bad field service.

Local dealers have these attributes

1. Local business connections
2. Profit incentives of their own, separate from the factory
3. Answerability to local regulators

These sorts of things give real consequences to the quality of field service.

If Tesla wants to succeed at replacing the local-dealer business model by removing local shops from the value chain, they're going to have to dream up a effective new scheme of consequences for service quality.

This is what I've been saying for years. Folks in this thread have been replying "Oh sounds like you had a bad experience at your service center, mine's been great" or "maybe try a different service center". News flash: Tesla owns ALL the service centers. These types of issues, isolated or not, are unacceptable. Isn't that why Tesla chose to own the entire supply chain? To control the quality of service? Oops.

This is why the OP's post is so poignant, and if you don't see it you're missing his point altogether. These issues are indicative of systemic problems within Tesla with regard to aftersales support. The folks in the service centers have no skin in the game and if they get fired for poor performance, they'll just go get a different job. A dealership principal has his reputation at stake, more so often because he lives locally among his customer base. It's in his interest to do right and get repeat business. To get a Tesla serviced, by and large you're limited to returning to Tesla. There's a reason monopolies are illegal.

And can we dispense with the "oh but they're a new company, I'm sure they'll work this all out, I'm willing to give them some slack." They've been at this for ten years minimum by my count, and this was the plan forward from the beginning. That they are falling short now means the planning was deficient and/or they grossly underestimated what it was going to take.

 

[Menifeer]

...
The problems that we are willing to accept are not problems your neighbor will. Please keep that in mind. ...

Therein lies the long-term problem once we get past the early-adopter phase. Other manufacturers will roll out their EV offerings and be able to support them through their extensive dealer networks. Tesla will need a LOT more Service Centers to be competitive.

 

[Thumper]

Just a single owner's experience, but I have had nothing but good experiences with the Portland, OR service center. 5 years, 55K miles and no drive problems.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If a company would die on bad customer service alone, AT&T and Comcast should be dead long ago. Yes, Tesla needs to fix any customer service issues they have (although as people point out, it's not universal), but it's a bit extreme to say the company would fail because of this.

 

[Canuck]

My advice to investors at this point is to hold on now, but dump the stock before 2020 if they don't fix the chronic and ever-worsening service problems.

Thanks. I'll take your experience and use it to determine how to handle my investments. But in that case, I also need to know how things are going with you and Apple, Google, Amazon, Netflix, Sirius? Because if any of those companies make you mad, I should dump them too, after the grace period for fixing them, right?

You must realize how ridiculous your investment advice is? It's so over the top, I know you're not a short. Just too upset to see rationally, which is understandable. It happens to all of us.

Our critiques are not attempts to destroy Tesla. Our critiques are attempts to strengthen Tesla.

Agreed but the criticism, like the praise, needs balance. Facts are best -- people can draw their own conclusions. Of course, when you feel slighted it's tough to take the emotion out of it, but those that do will help Tesla better than predictions of doom where the chuckles drown out the legitimate complaints.

Just a single owner's experience, but I have had nothing but good experiences with the Portland, OR service center. 5 years, 55K miles and no drive problems.

Same here for 4 years now. It has been by far the best service of any vehicle I've owned, including BMW, which seems to get more praise than they deserve, at least in the experience I see with my wife and her vehicle. But that doesn't mean others do not have legitimate complaints. There's too many reported to be ignored as one-offs.

 

[claudelaval]

For lack of a nail in a horse shoe the war was lost, huh?

If all Neroden write is true he has a very good point.

 

[claudelaval]

Competition will hopefully force them to adjust. I want Tesla to be successful - had a model S, my Model 3 hopefully will be delivered soon. At the same time, I did make a reservation with Porsche for the Mission E, and will make one also with Jaguar as soon as they take one for their electric sedan.....

Mission e and Jaguar? Money is no problem for you! Anyway good luck to find dedicated SC stalls...

 

[claudelaval]

I have found the service to be excellent, but there is a serious capacity problem with Montreal service.

I reported my driver’s door handle failure over a week ago, and not even an appointment yet. I keep having to crawl in from the passenger side. Any other door handle would have been a minor nuisance, but this is well beyond that.

How the hell will they service Model 3 if they can’t handle the current workload?

Do what I do...I go to the service center (Montreal) and leave the car there and putting a little pressure for them to give me a courtesy Tesla as I did 2 weeks ago when they keep the car from wednesday to the next monday because of a faulty 12V battery. But I admit the would try to split in 2 to make you happy as they did each time I went there.

 

[Doug_G]

I’m 200 km from the service center. Having the service van come by is awesome. I’m just worried about the capacity.

 

[SarahsDad]

On the other hand, I've owned my P85+ for 4 1/2 years and although it's been in the service center several times, (new motor, new battery, etc), it's all been painless with Ranger Service (they drop off a loaner at my workplace, swap my car out, then return it later same day). The only time I've been to my Service Center (about 45 min away) is for a Tesla Owner's event. And everything has been covered under warranty (except the rapidly worn-out tires every 10K miles, that's another story). I much prefer this to my prior treks to the BMW dealer where they tried to upsell met at every service visit...