Will you buy FSD before the $1,000 increase on July 1st?

[DrtyJrze]

In Sweden the price stayed the same even though Autopilot was included (and even though the incentives actually increased). If you are buying a P they even lowered the price a lot and it now costs only $3.5k more than a LR AWD. So it seems depending on which market you are in.



What extra does FSD add over autopilot for commuting today? Autopilot does what I would do on a normal commute, you get on the highway and stay there with enough traffic that dashing back and forth between lanes isn’t useful, once you get off neither FSD or autopilot can handle the roundabouts and such that are there anyway. Once FSD let’s me not pay attention on the highway then it for sure have a use case, but when will that be? Since my car is nearing 6 months old already they would have to release legal to use level 3 within a year at the most for me to get any actual use of buying FSD, will they do that?

The interesting part will be now that UNECE has come out with their regulations regarding level 3 driving assistance systems for highways (although limited to operating below 60 km/h at start so only useful in traffic). Will Tesla be a part of that or do they not yet have enough faith in their system to accept liability? It seems Audi has a system where they are ready for that so it will be very interesting to see which manufacturers are in the first wave of legal to use level 3.

I think this is where the value is relative to the user. My commute situation is 95% highway. I drive 2 easy miles to the highway. The traffic is high speed, then a bottleneck for busy exits, then high speed. So one can definitely safely switch multiple lanes, then sit bumper to bumper at slower speeds, then switch lanes again.

So far me switching lanes is HUGE. If I had to sit in one lane and/or disengage AP every time I switched lanes I’d have a stroke. I have no roundabouts. Once I get off the highway my destination is literally at the off ramp light.

So on a roughly 30 minute commute I now drive MAYBE 5 minutes of it. That’s 50 minutes less per day, times years. Not including any road family road trips or regular chore driving. I’m satisfied with the quality of life improvement.

Like I said previously, any updates from here on out, for me, are icing on the cake. I’d prefer higher level autonomy on highways BEFORE city driving and/or turning to be honest. Becuase that’s what most of my driving is. 60km/h is too slow, but if it was basic highway speed of 55mph I’d be content getting some places slower. I care a lot less about the speed when I’m not driving, hahaha.

 

[Stickboy46]

I think this is where the value is relative to the user. My commute situation is 95% highway. I drive 2 easy miles to the highway. The traffic is high speed, then a bottleneck for busy exits, then high speed. So one can definitely safely switch multiple lanes, then sit bumper to bumper at slower speeds, then switch lanes again.

So far me switching lanes is HUGE. If I had to sit in one lane and/or disengage AP every time I switched lanes I’d have a stroke. I have no roundabouts. Once I get off the highway my destination is literally at the off ramp light.

So on a roughly 30 minute commute I now drive MAYBE 5 minutes of it. That’s 50 minutes less per day, times years. Not including any road family road trips or regular chore driving. I’m satisfied with the quality of life improvement.

Like I said previously, any updates from here on out, for me, are icing on the cake. I’d prefer higher level autonomy on highways BEFORE city driving and/or turning to be honest. Becuase that’s what most of my driving is. 60km/h is too slow, but if it was basic highway speed of 55mph I’d be content getting some places slower. I care a lot less about the speed when I’m not driving, hahaha.

Bolded part I 100% agree with. I think most that have passed on FSD for base autopilot just disagree with the rest of it.

Even in your scenario. Your 30 minute commute that is 5 minutes of driving with FSD, would be maybe 8 minutes of driving with base autopilot. I doubt you spend more than 10% of your drive changing lanes. The only difference is the time it takes to turn the wheel and then double tap the stalk. Even with Autopilot you still don't have to mess with the accelerator. TACC stays engaged the whole time the same way it does with FSD. It's literally just the movement of the wheel. To me, saying that having to do that would "cause a stroke" is a little dramatic IMO. Yet again, just my opinion, but from the way you described your commute, there would be absolutely zero chance it would be worth 7k to me for a couple 10 seconds intervals where i have to turn the wheel 10-15 degrees and then tap the stalk again.

 

[DrtyJrze]

Even in your scenario. Your 30 minute commute that is 5 minutes of driving with FSD, would be maybe 8 minutes of driving with base autopilot. I doubt you spend more than 10% of your drive changing lanes.

So let me try to follow your logic. You’re saying it’s okay to break down FSD into smaller pieces (10% changing lanes) but...

I don't break down my car into individual costs. I don't try to figure out how much i "paid" for the Wheels because they are included.

Both you buy as a package. So which one is it? You can’t have it both ways.

Doesn’t matter how much time is spent switching lanes. If I had to engage/disengage on every event I would probably never use FSD. So AP at the price of “free” would rarely get used by me, just like how I never used “free” cruise control in previous vehicles. Automatic lane changes are included with FSD, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to figure out how much time is spent changing lanes. It’s irrelevant.

Currently, I rarely use the FSD on stoplight roads because confirming every light is not worth the hassle. Once they make it automatic, I will be using it everyday. Does AP have Traffic light and stop sign control?

 

[Stickboy46]

So let me try to follow your logic. You’re saying it’s okay to break down FSD into smaller pieces (10% changing lanes) but...



Both you buy as a package. So which one is it? You can’t have it both ways.

Doesn’t matter how much time is spent switching lanes. If I had to engage/disengage on every event I would probably never use FSD. So AP at the price of “free” would rarely get used by me, just like how I never used “free” cruise control in previous vehicles. Automatic lane changes are included with FSD, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to figure out how much time is spent changing lanes. It’s irrelevant.

Currently, I rarely use the FSD on stoplight roads because confirming every light is not worth the hassle. Once they make it automatic, I will be using it everyday. Does AP have Traffic light and stop sign control?

I'm not having it both ways. I'm gauging both as full packages.

Right now the only useful feature is auto lane changes. So that's what i focused on. The rest of the stuff is a net negative IMO.

Like you said, value to each is subjective. Lane changes aren't worth 7k in my opinion. Nothing else that is added is useful or functional at this point.

As far as does AP have traffic light and stop sign control. No it doesnt. I'm glad it doesn't. Right now in it's current state with the limit on the speed you can set (to speed limit and not +5) and having to confirm every light is worse than base AP. Maybe at some point it will work right .. but as of right now ... no it doesn't.

 

[Kevy Baby]

So let me try to follow your logic.

Well, there's your mistake

 

[DrtyJrze]

@Stickboy46 wow, now I’m having an even harder time understanding why people are not buying FSD...

After reading your reply I went to the Tesla website and basic AP won’t do stoplights or stop signs or the eventual “autosteer on city streets” feature (whatever that means). I thought AP was already handling stoplights, just like FSD.

Driving on regular roads is a HUGE feature upgrade. At this point it isn’t the typical Elon “pie in the sky” dream, the car can already do this right now (with confirmation). It’s maybe a few weeks away from autonomy, they have already upgraded it to no confirmation needed if following a lead car.

So you’re saying that, knowing the car can and does handle regular roads now, in addition to everything else, it isn’t worth $8k? And you’re literally betting that as they add MORE functionality you expect Tesla to reverse the strategy they’ve been using and reduce the price? When there is no competition that’s close?

PLEASE tell me what y’all are smoking cause I want some! This make the non FSD stance even more ludicrous. You can’t even say it’s “just lane changing” anymore. Stoplights/Signs is a big deal, and it’s a real feature, not vaporware.

 

[dmurphy]

It’s maybe a few weeks away from autonomy, they have already upgraded it to no confirmation needed if following a lead car.

Agreed with everything you wrote except this part. I think it’ll be longer than that.

Otherwise, full agreement. The sheer pleasure I get from driving on AP means I want all those FSD features, too.

 

[DrtyJrze]

Agreed with everything you wrote except this part. I think it’ll be longer than that.

Otherwise, full agreement. The sheer pleasure I get from driving on AP means I want all those FSD features, too.

Yup, my timing is a pure guess. My point was that it’s here and works well. I get why they release it slowly, but confirming lights that the car can see 1/4 mile away is annoying, and confirming two lights close together is a little dangerous because the car stutters to wait for your second confirmation.

I can understand confirmation of stops signs though, because those have more variables to log and track. Stoplights are pretty standard though.

 

[Fernand]

I drove a Dual Motor Model S today with no AP, no EAP/FSD and no Enhanced Media (whatever they call it). Great acceleration. Other than a few joyful seconds of that, I got to squirm and listen to cackle commercial FM radio, while running the blinkers, steering and pedalling around other unfortunates on the crowded freeway, where I normally sit back after telling NOA to "Navigate Home". Oh, the joy of manly DRIVING. A bona fide POS experience for 2020, if you ask me. To each his own.

I wouldn't trade my modest automated RWD Model 3 for a manual Model S in a million years.
.

 

[Ofarlig]

I think this is where the value is relative to the user. My commute situation is 95% highway. I drive 2 easy miles to the highway. The traffic is high speed, then a bottleneck for busy exits, then high speed. So one can definitely safely switch multiple lanes, then sit bumper to bumper at slower speeds, then switch lanes again.

So far me switching lanes is HUGE. If I had to sit in one lane and/or disengage AP every time I switched lanes I’d have a stroke. I have no roundabouts. Once I get off the highway my destination is literally at the off ramp light.

So on a roughly 30 minute commute I now drive MAYBE 5 minutes of it. That’s 50 minutes less per day, times years. Not including any road family road trips or regular chore driving. I’m satisfied with the quality of life improvement.

Like I said previously, any updates from here on out, for me, are icing on the cake. I’d prefer higher level autonomy on highways BEFORE city driving and/or turning to be honest. Becuase that’s what most of my driving is. 60km/h is too slow, but if it was basic highway speed of 55mph I’d be content getting some places slower. I care a lot less about the speed when I’m not driving, hahaha.

Yeah, I think traffic flow differs betweeb countries. Over here I’d switch lanes when I get on and off the highway more or less so AP is already about the same as FSD for me.

I basically only care about legal to use level 3 on highway after AP and the question is if Tesla will be amongst the first there. Once they have level 3 at highway speeds I don’t care if I have to drive a diesel to get it.

Either way, I kept my Model S for 18 months and I cannot see myself keeping the 3 longer then 2.5 years so Tesla would need to hurry for me to find it worthwhile on this car. I would jump on a subscription deal though once they add the legality.

 

[wbhokie]

@Stickboy46 wow, now I’m having an even harder time understanding why people are not buying FSD...

After reading your reply I went to the Tesla website and basic AP won’t do stoplights or stop signs or the eventual “autosteer on city streets” feature (whatever that means). I thought AP was already handling stoplights, just like FSD.

Driving on regular roads is a HUGE feature upgrade. At this point it isn’t the typical Elon “pie in the sky” dream, the car can already do this right now (with confirmation). It’s maybe a few weeks away from autonomy, they have already upgraded it to no confirmation needed if following a lead car.

So you’re saying that, knowing the car can and does handle regular roads now, in addition to everything else, it isn’t worth $8k? And you’re literally betting that as they add MORE functionality you expect Tesla to reverse the strategy they’ve been using and reduce the price? When there is no competition that’s close?

PLEASE tell me what y’all are smoking cause I want some! This make the non FSD stance even more ludicrous. You can’t even say it’s “just lane changing” anymore. Stoplights/Signs is a big deal, and it’s a real feature, not vaporware.

As an early-owner, I have EAP on my Model 3. I rarely, if ever, use AP in residential areas. When I do, it is only during bumper to bumper tedium. My wife has the FSD on her Model X and I don't see any reason I'd pay extra for it since as the person above stated, the only thing it "appears" to do differently is change lanes automatically. I do see the stoplights on her dashboard though when I drive it.

I will say this... if you are using FSD on residential streets currently and are relying on it to stop, go, and are not paying attention at all times, you will end up in an accident eventually. There are several residential intersections withing 5 miles of me that my Tesla can't even stay in its lane. They also don't do well seeing high speed cross-traffic vehicles yet, so if your car is first in line and it sees a a green light and says go, and someone runs that red light, your car won't have an issue with it. Most of the things that the car does well to detect vehicles are based on the fact that it is a thing already moving in the same or opposite direction of you. Those are the only directions the visualization will show. I very much look forward to FSD when it is feature complete, but I would be very hesitant to use it in certain situations until then unless it is completely supervised (Yes, I know ALL AP should be) and really, other than highway or bumper-to-bumper driving, what is the point of that?

I have a Cybertruck reservation and I have FSD as an option on that but that is years away. If I decide to swap my Model 3 for it, I will take those options at that time. Right now, I don't see the options as being worth the price over EAP. Most people don't have the option to get EAP anymore though.

Granted, my opinion is just that. Mine. Just like yours is yours. The point isn't to convince you to change yours or anyone else's. It's to provide prospective from personal experience.

 

[Stickboy46]

@Stickboy46 wow, now I’m having an even harder time understanding why people are not buying FSD...

After reading your reply I went to the Tesla website and basic AP won’t do stoplights or stop signs or the eventual “autosteer on city streets” feature (whatever that means). I thought AP was already handling stoplights, just like FSD.

Driving on regular roads is a HUGE feature upgrade. At this point it isn’t the typical Elon “pie in the sky” dream, the car can already do this right now (with confirmation). It’s maybe a few weeks away from autonomy, they have already upgraded it to no confirmation needed if following a lead car.

So you’re saying that, knowing the car can and does handle regular roads now, in addition to everything else, it isn’t worth $8k? And you’re literally betting that as they add MORE functionality you expect Tesla to reverse the strategy they’ve been using and reduce the price? When there is no competition that’s close?

PLEASE tell me what y’all are smoking cause I want some! This make the non FSD stance even more ludicrous. You can’t even say it’s “just lane changing” anymore. Stoplights/Signs is a big deal, and it’s a real feature, not vaporware.

It's not a real feature until it exists. I guess limiting you to exactly the speed limit (dangerous) and stopping you at EVERY light no matter whether it's red, green or completely turned off is real too. Right now it's a net negative feature... Period. Maybe that will change in the future.. I'm not sure. Tesla does have a history of moving targets. I'd be a little worried that it now only says the only thing left is "autosteer on city streets" rather than full trips with no interaction like it used to. Technically AP does autosteer on city streets already. Also the "upgrade of going through without confirmation following a lead car is actually just reverting to what AP already does. My car will stop at a light behind a car then go when the car in front goes. They were just removing one more net negative about the stoplight feature.

Until then I'll continue to let AP drive me on city streets at a more reasonable 5 over with over LESS interactions than with the stop light feature.

If you think the way stop light integration works right now is worth ANYTHING let alone 8k, give me whatever you are smoking.

 

[flyingowl]

@Stickboy46 wow, now I’m having an even harder time understanding why people are not buying FSD...

After reading your reply I went to the Tesla website and basic AP won’t do stoplights or stop signs or the eventual “autosteer on city streets” feature (whatever that means). I thought AP was already handling stoplights, just like FSD.

Driving on regular roads is a HUGE feature upgrade. At this point it isn’t the typical Elon “pie in the sky” dream, the car can already do this right now (with confirmation). It’s maybe a few weeks away from autonomy, they have already upgraded it to no confirmation needed if following a lead car.

So you’re saying that, knowing the car can and does handle regular roads now, in addition to everything else, it isn’t worth $8k? And you’re literally betting that as they add MORE functionality you expect Tesla to reverse the strategy they’ve been using and reduce the price? When there is no competition that’s close?

PLEASE tell me what y’all are smoking cause I want some! This make the non FSD stance even more ludicrous. You can’t even say it’s “just lane changing” anymore. Stoplights/Signs is a big deal, and it’s a real feature, not vaporware.

 

[DrtyJrze]

Ay, I’m good. I lost zero sleep over the $7k for FSD. Do what works best for your situation. If you like it for you I love it.

We are in July, and the $1,000 increase is already on the website, so this thread is now dead. Looking forward to the next thread asking the same question in a few months on the next price increase that will include more FSD features/refinements.

Hopefully it will finally click with some that as the package evolves the price will increase. Until the competition catches up there is no financial incentive for Tesla to change their pricing model.

Tesla sold 90,000 vehicles during the covid pandemic. So I don’t think they’re are going to be in a rush to cater to the crowd that doesn’t see the value.

Enjoy AP and debating if FSD is worth it. The rest of us will move forward with the company.

 

[flyingowl]

Ay, I’m good. I lost zero sleep over the $7k for FSD. Do what works best for your situation. If you like it for you I love it.

We are in July, and the $1,000 increase is already on the website, so this thread is now dead. Looking forward to the next thread asking the same question in a few months on the next price increase that will include more FSD features/refinements.

Hopefully it will finally click with some that as the package evolves the price will increase. Until the competition catches up there is no financial incentive for Tesla to change their pricing model.

Tesla sold 90,000 vehicles during the covid pandemic. So I don’t think they’re are going to be in a rush to cater to the crowd that doesn’t see the value.

Enjoy AP and debating if FSD is worth it. The rest of us will move forward with the company.

Cool story bro. Now you can stop checking this post then.

 

[Stickboy46]

Ay, I’m good. I lost zero sleep over the $7k for FSD. Do what works best for your situation. If you like it for you I love it.

We are in July, and the $1,000 increase is already on the website, so this thread is now dead. Looking forward to the next thread asking the same question in a few months on the next price increase that will include more FSD features/refinements.

Hopefully it will finally click with some that as the package evolves the price will increase. Until the competition catches up there is no financial incentive for Tesla to change their pricing model.

Tesla sold 90,000 vehicles during the covid pandemic. So I don’t think they’re are going to be in a rush to cater to the crowd that doesn’t see the value.

Enjoy AP and debating if FSD is worth it. The rest of us will move forward with the company.

Enjoy constantly trying to justify giving Tesla an interest free loan for a product that doesn't exist yet!

Hopefully they don't keep releasing features that move the product backwards (stoplight interaction).

 

[Stickboy46]

Cool story bro. Now you can stop checking this post then.

How else is he going to be able to constantly reassure himself that he didn't make the wrong choice in buying FSD

 

[GZDongles]

Enjoy constantly trying to justify giving Tesla an interest free loan for a product that doesn't exist yet!

Hopefully they don't keep releasing features that move the product backwards (stoplight interaction).

Stop light interaction is optional, and my car already supports go on green. Not sure how that's moving backwards?

FSD is ~$100 additional /month over the course of my loan. If you're buying a $50k+ car, that's hardly an amount that is going to impact your finances. I don't know why people feel the need to justify their purchases or lack thereof to other people. Honestly no one needs to buy a Tesla in the first place, so it's all "play" money in a sense. Why do you care how other people are spending their money?

 

[Stickboy46]

Stop light interaction is optional, and my car already supports go on green. Not sure how that's moving backwards?

FSD is ~$100 additional /month over the course of my loan. If you're buying a $50k+ car, that's hardly an amount that is going to impact your finances. I don't know why people feel the need to justify their purchases or lack thereof to other people. Honestly no one needs to buy a Tesla in the first place, so it's all "play" money in a sense. Why do you care how other people are spending their money?

I don't. Just certain people like to make it out like if you don't buy FSD you are a complete idiot. Just giving them crap back. Right now the value prop for FSD over AP just isn't there and isn't close. That's my opinion. If you are buying on the promise of something that isn't delivered... That's fine. I prefer to base judgments on what exists right now. Not promises that may or may not ever happen. That's why I got a Model 3 instead of waiting for a Mach E. As much as I want to believe in consumer protections... Reality is the companies are protected more than consumers and you really have very minimal recourse if things don't end up releasing like many think they will.

 

[GZDongles]

I don't. Just certain people like to make it out like if you don't buy FSD you are a complete idiot. Just giving them crap back. Right now the value prop for FSD over AP just isn't there and isn't close. That's my opinion. If you are buying on the promise of something that isn't delivered... That's fine. I prefer to base judgments on what exists right now. Not promises that may or may not ever happen. That's why I got a Model 3 instead of waiting for a Mach E. As much as I want to believe in consumer protections... Reality is the companies are protected more than consumers and you really have very minimal recourse if things don't end up releasing like many think they will.

Fair point and I see where you are coming from. That's why I asked myself if I would be satisfied with my FSD purchase if it only delivered the 6 current features plus the promised "autosteer on city streets". I completely agree that buying something based on the hope of getting features that Tesla isn't even promising anymore is setting yourself up for disappointment.