Wow! Temperature Really Does Matter!

[AudubonB]

As I am waaaay on the left-hand side of the learning curve here...still....can someone please tell me:

1. how does one go about pre-heating the battery pack? I gleaned that possibility in one or two of the early posts in this thread. That's something that comes natural around here: no Alaskan with a diesel vehicle would think of starting the engine in winter without preheating, and even those who drive gassers normally also do.

2. how does one find, in this forum, anything resembling a "here is what you can expect to do with and learn to do with your Model S" - it's hard to perform a search engine function when you don't know what it is you don't know.

 

[tdiggity]

As I am waaaay on the left-hand side of the learning curve here...still....can someone please tell me:

1. how does one go about pre-heating the battery pack? I gleaned that possibility in one or two of the early posts in this thread. That's something that comes natural around here: no Alaskan with a diesel vehicle would think of starting the engine in winter without preheating, and even those who drive gassers normally also do.

2. how does one find, in this forum, anything resembling a "here is what you can expect to do with and learn to do with your Model S" - it's hard to perform a search engine function when you don't know what it is you don't know.

You should read all the sticky'd threads in the Model S forum (and sub forums). It is hard to search for these specific things, so you'll need to accumulate that knowledge slowly.

You can heat the battery pack by turning on the climate control from the mobile app.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

600-750 Wh/mile? sounds like something's wrong. even in 10-20 degree weather, it's hard for me to average above 450Wh/mile when being heavy on the pedal. you should see a 10-20% difference between 20 degree weather and 80 degree weather, not 100+% difference. I'd get that checked out....sounds like something's busted with the batteries' warming pack.

Or busted heat pump. If it's using resistive heat to warm the car it'd be leaking charge.

 

[AudubonB]

Thanks, tdiggity. I've been "shotgunning" the entire forum for quite some time now and am hoping that I remember more than a quarter or so of what I'm reading.... it is still some time before I take delivery. And I couldn't take the time to bop down to the Scottsdale store for more "training" when we flew to AZ last week for 6 days!

 

[JerryNycom]

Your trip is doable with care in extreme temperatures, if you (a) Range mode charge just before leaving (so the pack is full AND warm), (b) DO NOT drive at 65 mph, but rather keep it to 55, and (c) be careful and keep a close eye on your range reserve (GPS range - Projected range). I've done very close to the same distance at -20C (-4F) in blizzard conditions, and had a decent safety buffer. See my new blog on road trips: The Rules of Model S Road Tripping - Blogs - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum

Piece of cake in the summer. Probably not a big deal around freezing. More of a big deal in extreme cold.




And yes, upstate NY is something of a charging wasteland. I've noticed more things popping up on plugshare, but it's not clear whether any of them are trustworthy.

Awesome blog, I think I read that way before I had my car, makes a lot more sense now....Cant wait to try this trip maybe next month!

 

[William13]

My lifetime use is just over 410 watts/mile. SB is cold all winter and my foot is heavy. I can seldom hit less than 300 watts/mile even when going slowly. However the car seldom went over 510 or 520 unless it was less than 10*F and I was going over 65 mph. I wonder if the op's battery heater is not working correctly. Maybe it is many stops and short drives in cold weather. Does he drive to lunch for ten minutes? This might use a lot in very cold weather warming the battery four separate times.

 

[mknox]

My lifetime use is just over 410 watts/mile. SB is cold all winter and my foot is heavy. I can seldom hit less than 300 watts/mile even when going slowly. However the car seldom went over 510 or 520 unless it was less than 10*F and I was going over 65 mph. I wonder if the op's battery heater is not working correctly. Maybe it is many stops and short drives in cold weather. Does he drive to lunch for ten minutes? This might use a lot in very cold weather warming the battery four separate times.

With spring coming on strong, my lifetime numbers are dropping fast, so it's going to be hard to diagnose a bad heater for a while. My commute is about an hour each way, and about 75% freeway. I'm going against the traffic, so it's usually 65 MPH in the right lane up to almost 80 MPH (unless the cops are out) in the left. I usually stay right and drive slower. I do run out for lunch, and the car was sitting mostly unplugged at work at that time. For what it's worth, I thought the car was performing flawlessly, and the cabin heat was keeping the cabin nice and toasty. After I was underway, and the orange re-gen limit lines went away, I could definitely see the Wh/mi numbers drop, but I never got down to anywhere near 300 in the freezing temps.

I hadn't really considered that my "cold weather" numbers were bad, just that I was surprised how much better they got when the weather warmed up. Tonight coming home from work I was doing 65 to 75 with most of the trip around 70 MPH and that trip's Wh/mi was just under 300. As I say, much better in the warmer weather.

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Egads! Your car is averaging 600Wh/mi over its first 2800 miles? I think that must be some kind of record on here!!!!!

Note: I got my car February 15 and have averaged 234Wh/km over 4363km. (Using ~62% of the electricity, that your using)

I was going to suggest that your car sitting in the cold all day had a very large negative impact on efficiency, but you plug in at work right?

It was high for the 4 weeks or so that we had cold weather right after I got the car, and has been steadily dropping as the weather warms up. The odometer turned over to 3,000 miles today and the lifetime Wh/mi is now 366 and April to-date is 352. (I re-set Trip A on the first of the month, and have left Trip B alone since getting the car). My March numbers were much higher. Some of my trips (using the "Since Last Charge" screen) were in the 600's and now are in the high 200's to low 300's.

I plug in at work when the EVSE isn't being used by the company Volt. (I don't have to... plenty of range but figure why not?)

 

[Doug_G]

I think it is more the rain than the cold. My range plummets when it rains hard, window fogs up and temperature drops. Temperature hasn't seemed to be as much, but the range of temps here has been 40-55F usually, so don't know that I can speak to that. Hard rain...yes, that hurts range.

That's not really cold enough to have an impact. I've not noticed any significant effect on range until you hit freezing temperatures.

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With spring coming on strong, my lifetime numbers are dropping fast, so it's going to be hard to diagnose a bad heater for a while.

I doubt there's anything wrong. I had ludicrous power usage numbers too when my car cold-soaked all day in extreme cold. Once the pack is warmed up you get more normal usage.

 

[SuperCoug]

I think it is more the rain than the cold. My range plummets when it rains hard, window fogs up and temperature drops. Temperature hasn't seemed to be as much, but the range of temps here has been 40-55F usually, so don't know that I can speak to that. Hard rain...yes, that hurts range.

Yeah, we here in Seattle we don't get cold enough to really impact range but the hard rain kills us because we still allow studded snow tires in the winter. These studded tires have created deep ruts on our freeways that fill with water and dramatically increases rolling resistance. We're pushing a lot of water out of the way on I-5 and I-405! It's hard not to hydroplane even at reasonable speeds.

 

[Zapped]

That day, driving home at 60 to 65 MPH in the pouring rain, with headlights and a/c on, I was averaging 209 Wh/mi over 30 miles and my projected range was way, way over rated. I wanted to take a picture of the screens with my cell phone, but thought better of it, driving on the freeway in the rain and all. Over the next couple of days it remained warmer and I continued to have no problem beating rated range, getting in the mid 200's even when driving 65 to 70 MPH.

I assume your doing some converting from km to mi in your calcs. The best I've got is 200 Wh / km. = 320Wh /mi.
Are you really getting 200Wh /mi at the speeds ? .... Just asking.

On a side note, this tread is great for power considerations Factors Affecting Range

 

[mknox]

I doubt there's anything wrong. I had ludicrous power usage numbers too when my car cold-soaked all day in extreme cold. Once the pack is warmed up you get more normal usage.

I agree. My intent in all of this was to point out how much improved it's gotten with the warmer weather. Range has never been an issue. Even with the high cold usage, I never gave range a second thought and can drive as fast as I want with the heat as high as I want.

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I assume your doing some converting from km to mi in your calcs. The best I've got is 200 Wh / km. = 320Wh /mi.
Are you really getting 200Wh /mi at the speeds ? .... Just asking.

I keep all of the displays in my car in US units. I just prefer it that way (already been berated in other threads for this, but hey, it's a free country :smile The numbers are coming directly from the screens.

I saw 209 Wh/mi using the 30 mile average on a drive home from work last week. I am 40 miles or 65 km one-way home to work, mostly freeway.

 

[montgom626]

You are my hero!

I saw 209 Wh/mi using the 30 mile average on a drive home from work last week. I am 40 miles or 65 km one-way home to work, mostly freeway.

WOW! I have driven EV since last year. You are my hero! 209 Wh/mi is simply phenomenal! In my Volt, I have to be under ideal conditions (70 degrees, 55 mph) to get 209 Wh/mi. I have not had the chance to run my MS in the same conditions. All I can say is "you are the mileage man!!!"

 

[mknox]

WOW! I have driven EV since last year. You are my hero! 209 Wh/mi is simply phenomenal! In my Volt, I have to be under ideal conditions (70 degrees, 55 mph) to get 209 Wh/mi. I have not had the chance to run my MS in the same conditions. All I can say is "you are the mileage man!!!"

I was actually futzing around in my pocket for my cell phone thinking I would take a picture of the screens, but thought better of it being under way and all. FWIW, it was a freakishly hot day (for my area at this time of year) and was around 70-75 degrees F at 7:30 PM. I had been driving most of the distance at around 60 MPH with cruise on. I'm not sure if my a/c was on or not. It may have been on Auto, but I usually over-ride the a/c's Auto setting and keep it manually switched off.

Now, I drive like this most of the time and my main point was how much better my range and Wh/mi had gotten with the warmer temps. I wasn't really doing anything different other than perhaps not using the cabin heater as I would have when it was colder.

As another data point, there is a 350' elevation change (in my favor), but it's over a 40 mile distance so I'm not sure how much of a factor that would be. Doesn't seem like much.

 

[GeekGirls]

I saw 209 Wh/mi using the 30 mile average on a drive home from work last week. I am 40 miles or 65 km one-way home to work, mostly freeway.

Nice! Do you know if there's any elevation difference along that route? My two polar opposite experiences have been 8000+kWh average leaving my garage and climbing my driveway, and driving down into Santa Cruz proper where I've actually achieved a negative average since last charge.

 

[mknox]

Nice! Do you know if there's any elevation difference along that route?

Yes. A quick Google Search of the two cities shows a difference of only 350' in my favor, but that's over 40 miles, so I'm not sure how big a deal that is. Doug_G notes that he sees better range travelling eastbound vs. westbound due to prevailing winds, and I was also travelling eastbound.

I have gone from software 4.2 to 4.3 and now 4.4. Could that have something to do with the large improvement from earlier that I'm seeing? (just thought of that now).

 

[mknox]

Here's an example from my trip home today:

Temperature was 38 degrees and it rained the whole way. Not as good as last week when temps were much higher, but my 30 mile average was 267 Wh/mi and my Projected range of 207 miles was better than the Rated 180 shown on the dash. You can also see on the dash the whole trip was 304 Wh/mi because it was quite high at the start with the heater warming the car (did not pre-heat while plugged in). My April (Trip A) and Lifetime (Trip B)numbers are also starting to come way down from where they had been a month ago.

 

[brianman]

@mknox - Am I reading too much into your chart or did you have (a) no significant traffic or stoplights to deal with and (b) were on mostly flat terrain?

 

[mknox]

@mknox - Am I reading too much into your chart or did you have (a) no significant traffic or stoplights to deal with and (b) were on mostly flat terrain?

My commute is mostly freeway (at freeway speeds; I commute in the opposite direction of most traffic) with about 5 miles (on this trip) on surface streets. Southern Ontario is relatively flat. I sometimes jump off the freeway earlier (to avoid tolls) and then maybe will do 10 or 15 miles on surface streets.

 

[CarlE_P439]

A more effective way to "preheat" the battery pack in cold weather is to charge the battery. If you normally use "Standard" charging mode, switch to "Max Range" first thing in the morning (at a decreased amperage is fine as well) for about 10-20 minutes and that should do the trick.

 

[montgom626]

A more effective way to "preheat" the battery pack in cold weather is to charge the battery. If you normally use "Standard" charging mode, switch to "Max Range" first thing in the morning (at a decreased amperage is fine as well) for about 10-20 minutes and that should do the trick.

Good idea. Maybe that can be in version 4.5???