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WSJ Pull the Plug on Electric Car Subsidies

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by vfx, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Scathing review and the comments are out of control.


    Margo Thorning: Pull the Plug on Electric Car Subsidies - WSJ.com

     
  2. zack

    zack Member

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    "Unless crude oil prices rise close to $300 per barrel and battery costs fall by 75%, a PEV is
    more expensive than a gasoline-powered vehicle."

    Erm... someone needs to use a calculator.
     
  3. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    If anyone is so inclined, make a comment on WSJ. They have a wide demographic.
     
  4. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    Everyone seems to neglect the amount of the defense budget that goes to protecting the oil shipping lanes in the middle east as well as the cost of bombing oil tyrants (Gaddafi) over there. If we weren't so hooked on cheap oil, such military deployments would be unnecessary. Or, if we didn't do it, oil would be much more expensive.
     
  5. zack

    zack Member

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    The Iraq war cost us at least $1.2 Trillion. During that time we imported 70,000,000 barrels of oil, each producing 19.5 gallons of gasoline. That's a hidden tax of $879/gallon of gas derived from imported oil. We have all the friendly coal, uranium, natural gas, wind, sun, and geothermal we need right here in North America to produce war-tax-free electricity.
     
  6. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Based on comments, a wide demographic of poorly-educated, misguided morons that know nothing about engineering or physics.

    my advice would be: don't post anything. Posting just fuels the fire. These are the kinds of people for whom rational logic goes in one ear and out the other.

    It's not worth your time.

    Just my two cents.
     
  7. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    I completely agree. That kind of nonsense used to piss me off, but not anymore. Let stupid stubborn people get gouged for gasoline, while the smart ones drive EV's.
     
  8. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Me too. It used to make me furious. But there is a sense of comfort knowing that morons shall be morons, and in the end, that's what they'll be shown to be. It may take awhile, but superior technology tends to find it's way into the mainstream--eventually.
     
  9. felixtb

    felixtb RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4

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    an interesting thing is that nobody ever seem to discuss all the electrical power needed to refine those 19 odd gallons of gas per barrel. there seems to be some general consensus that PEVs use dirty elec and ICEs use singularly dirty gas but they also first use dirty elec to produce said dirty gas.......so in the end they are always about twice as dirty......... food for thought.
     
  10. zack

    zack Member

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  11. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    I saw this in the paper the other day, but was able to ignore it. I don't know the organization of the author, but I'm sure it's Funded by big oil. Keep in mind, the article expressly focuses on plug-in hybrids with ICEs (i.e., Volt and Fisker), not all-electric vehicles like the Leaf or Roadster. It's a very strange concept to just focus on plug-in hybrids, so we can assume there's a specific agenda behind it.

    The WSJ op-Ed pages since Murdoch bought them has become a great place for conservatives hacks to push their unique agendas without scrutiny. It's annoying, and particularly so because I used to love reading really well-written and interesting opinion pieces from across the political spectrum, and now it's essentially the print version of Fox News (i.e., a propaganda shop). All of which is to say, I agree with those who say to ignore this completely.
     
  12. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  13. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #13 vfx, Mar 25, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
    It's weird how she starts out each sentence by saying the electric car has been around 180 years. As if that has any relevance like "it's never going to work". Seems like that logic would only work on reeeal old people.The phone has bee around hundred years so cell phones are a bad idea?
     
  14. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Oil Companies Reap Billions From Subsidies - NYTimes.com
     
  15. felixtb

    felixtb RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4

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    #15 felixtb, Mar 26, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011




    This is what I mean. is there not a single journalist with record that is not an environmentalist in these forums. this would help to write an article of value on the subject...... the problem is that most people will feel that there is more of a hidden agenda if someone whom is seen as a green peace advocate writes an article that is pro EV rather than the other way around (because that's the norm). So the EV movement needs to pick an ally from the mainstream establishment and have them write an article in a paper of note so people actually read it. There was a similar article, to the WSJ one, written in a Swedish paper the other day against EVs, again neglecting the fact that gas production is one of the heaviest users of electricity in a western society........ but ordinary people believe this and that's the problem. as long as the main stream writes down the possessive effects of going EV then people will hesitate and even reverse their decisions based on the info they read.......bad for us all in the end.
     
  16. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    #16 Jaff, Mar 26, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
    I wouldn't describe it as weird V, I'd classify it as intentional disingenuous buncombe...the electric car may have been around for 180 years, but it has only been around in earnest since the EV1 (imo)...it's almost like "quasi-logic" FUD...if one can't see the problem / intent to mislead using a false argument here, I'm not sure one could "fog up a mirror" :biggrin:

    To me, the fact that her sermon leads off with this dubious assertion shows the depths at which the oil industry will stoop in this matter.:rolleyes:

     
  17. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    There was a piece on BBC Newsnight last night where they interviewed a Saudi prince who is the second biggest shareholder in News Corp. May explain something.

    However in saying that the Murdoch press in the UK has normally been fairly ok with EVs. Much more so than the Telegraph or the increasingly AGW denying Daily Mail.
     
  18. Slackjaw

    Slackjaw Member

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    #18 Slackjaw, Jul 15, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
    FYI: Anyone who doesn't know how to circumvent the paywall on WSJ, you put the article title into google and it's usually the first link. This is essentially a trick of going through a "hole" they make so that google can search the articles. The above link is to the comments only and bounces you to the cut-down article (outside the paywall) if you try to switch tabs.

    Full article is here: Margo Thorning: Pull the Plug on Electric Car Subsidies - WSJ.com
     
  19. smorgasbord

    smorgasbord Active Member

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    Don't forget to consider the source. Margo Thorning is executive vice president and chief economist at the American Council for Capital Formation, which receives big funding from the American Petroleum Institute and ExxonMobile. Here's one reference.
     
  20. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yep, I posted that same link earlier in this thread (under the Youtube video.)
     

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