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1.5 still getting 188 to 185 on standard charge
- Thread starter Matteni
- Start date
decreasing the Amps on 240v seems to have a similar effect of allowing the battery to charge more giving slightly higher range. and using 120v/15A looks like it goes up 1-2 miles in ideal range for me vs. 240/15A
unclear to me if it's "better" for the battery than charging 240/24A or other low Amperage, but gets a few more miles by going to a higher SOC%.
The battery will not be cooled during charging at 120v. I would suggest 240v medium amperage (around 30A or so) is the optimum, to balance battery temperature, charging speed, charging inefficiency overhead, etc.
Change at lowest amps possible for your driving situation. Avoid range charging. Keep plugged in. I only use 240 for cooling an hour then back on 110v. Try not to deplete battery.
If goal is to extend battery life.
Otherwise just ignore. Enjoy.
We are all dying we just don't have a declining ideal range going down weekly!
DeedWest
2008 VP & 2011 2.5 Sport
How frequently are you driving the car? It's important to note that regularly charging on 110V is more detrimental to some components on the car than using 240V at a lower amperage. For me personally, I'd rather my coolant pump be running the least amount of time possible, and would rather focus on the ESS being cooled than gaining 1-3 extra miles on the VDS at the expense of longer periods of the vehicle in the charging state. But always - to each their own.
Most Roadsters were NOT daily driven by their original owners, which explains why CAC values seem to always drop when they're passed along to new owners who regularly utilize them. This has happened on every single one of my Roadsters, and I have owned several of them over the past six years.
If a Roadster sits in storage for a long time (usually on 110V, or even 240V), it wakes up every 24 hours to top off the charge. Apparently, this inherently raises the CAC value because the car only sits at a full Standard Mode charge and gets confused of its true capacity - mostly due to it never reaching anything lower than 85% SOC. Less than 10,000 miles over a nearly twelve year lifespan means the vehicle has spent most of its life sitting at a full Standard Mode charge. I suspect that as your vehicles are driven regularly, your Ideal Range will decrease, and this is not something to be alarmed about. Your ESS are now 9-12 years old depending on your VIN.
However, once it's driven and reaches those lower amounts, it gets a much higher understanding of its own capacity, thus dropping the unrealistic CAC value. This being said, I've learned that I'd always prefer a balanced Roadster with a lower CAC, than a low-mileage, high CAC Roadster that will eventually balance itself once I start driving it like it was meant to be. An example being - I took a road trip and had my 2008 Roadster die at 12% because it had never been to that threshold before and had no idea of its own capacity. The diagnostic menu said 2%, when the VDS' Ideal Range showed otherwise. After charging it again, the CAC was a bit lower, but has now maintained that number for 11 months!
My unwarranted opinion here would be this - if you're driving your Roadster even just a few times a month, the best thing would be to keep it plugged in 24/7 at 240V at a low amperage (16A or 24A). This will allow it to cool itself and spend a bit less time charging, which will keep your coolant pump running for a longer lifespan.
Another data point - my current Roadster was bought by myself, the second owner, at 36,700 miles. This mileage existed over an 8 year lifespan at about 4,500 miles annually. It had also always been charged at 56 Amps. The CAC at the time was 158. It was the highest I've ever seen, and was the most satisfying thing to see a Standard Mode charge finish at 188 Ideal Miles. It had never been range charged, and lived in Northern California where the temperatures rarely got hot, unlike Texas where I live. However, as soon as I brought it home and started driving it between 40 and 110 miles daily, the CAC has now leveled out around 150 and it is perfectly balanced. I have no complaints, as long as it's healthy. Nine months later, she is at 47,700 miles, and has always been plugged in.
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I stand by my statement. For battery longevity/health (if that is your goal).
The enemy of a battery is depletion, heat, and vibration. The two variables we control are depletion and heat.
As for heat - you want to prevent dendrites, lithium plating and thermal runaway.
Charge at the lowest amps you can tolerate for your driving style BUT if your battery / PEM gets hot (red bars) use 240v 16amp (lowest amps to initiate cooling AC of battery) then go back to 12Amps (110/220v either way). Keep it on a low amp charge as much and as often as possible to balance the pack.
Avoid if possible range charging and try not to get below 20-40% battery level.
Or better yet - just enjoy your car and know someone will come up with a replacement battery at some point.
The enemy of a battery is depletion, heat, and vibration. The two variables we control are depletion and heat.
As for heat - you want to prevent dendrites, lithium plating and thermal runaway.
Charge at the lowest amps you can tolerate for your driving style BUT if your battery / PEM gets hot (red bars) use 240v 16amp (lowest amps to initiate cooling AC of battery) then go back to 12Amps (110/220v either way). Keep it on a low amp charge as much and as often as possible to balance the pack.
Avoid if possible range charging and try not to get below 20-40% battery level.
Or better yet - just enjoy your car and know someone will come up with a replacement battery at some point.
DeedWest
2008 VP & 2011 2.5 Sport
Highly curious - what is the benefit of stopping mid-charge and switching to the 110V cable? This does nothing for thermal management throughout the remainder of the (very lengthy) charging cycle, and causes the coolant pump to run continuously. This negates the thermal management category listed above to prolong battery life. Not to mention, each charging cycle initiated and stopped adds wear to the contactors.
There are several Texas collector Roadsters that have been left on 110V their entire life and have experienced 20% or more losses in range due to the lack of necessary ESS cooling on 110V. That being said, I would only recommend your advice above if owners live in milder climates.
My car lived in Seattle and is now in St. Louis. It was never range charged and never on anything but the standard 110v. It only has 10k miles. It was never depleted lower than 50%. I believe that is why it charges to 188 to this day.
I drive it now daily. I commute 6 miles round trip unless I am having some fun (which is daily - LOL). If the PEM/Battery gets well into the yellow temps or red I plug-in 16A / 240V for 1 hour then go back to 110V once cooling is done. I do not have OVMS or I would automate this process.
As for wear to the contractors I have reason to believe that is less an issue on 1.5 vs 2.0+. The earlier cars were over-engineered IMO.
Bottom line is the higher the amps = more resistance = more heat = degradation (with the exception of cooling >>> amp level). Obviously you need to replace the amount of KW spent driving daily or may want to take long trips but if you can minimize the heat generated charging by using lower amps AND keep the PEM / Battery as cool as possible you will be better off. I am confident in that.
I drive it now daily. I commute 6 miles round trip unless I am having some fun (which is daily - LOL). If the PEM/Battery gets well into the yellow temps or red I plug-in 16A / 240V for 1 hour then go back to 110V once cooling is done. I do not have OVMS or I would automate this process.
As for wear to the contractors I have reason to believe that is less an issue on 1.5 vs 2.0+. The earlier cars were over-engineered IMO.
Bottom line is the higher the amps = more resistance = more heat = degradation (with the exception of cooling >>> amp level). Obviously you need to replace the amount of KW spent driving daily or may want to take long trips but if you can minimize the heat generated charging by using lower amps AND keep the PEM / Battery as cool as possible you will be better off. I am confident in that.
DeedWest
2008 VP & 2011 2.5 Sport
Thanks for elaborating further. 100% agreed regarding the negative effects of heat on pack longevity. However, my point was simply that you can lower the amperage in the VDS to 12A on 240V charging without needing to stop the charge, unplug, and restart using the other cable. Have you tried this? Also, while higher amps in theory would equal more heat, the active cooling of the ESS that occurs during consistent 240V charging completely alleviates this! The best reason to lower amps to 16A or 24A is to prevent higher PEM temps.
The 110V cables are also very unreliable compared to the 240V or wall connectors, so I’d hate to see you burn through the cable sooner.
You must get OVMS as soon as possible! I waited five years of Roadster ownership before I finally got it, and I’ve been kicking myself ever since for not getting it sooner. It is the single best upgrade you can do for less than $160! Now, I can dial the amps down from my bedroom.
Rotarypower
Member
Thanks for elaborating further. 100% agreed regarding the negative effects of heat on pack longevity. However, my point was simply that you can lower the amperage in the VDS to 12A on 240V charging without needing to stop the charge, unplug, and restart using the other cable. Have you tried this? Also, while higher amps in theory would equal more heat, the active cooling of the ESS that occurs during consistent 240V charging completely alleviates this! The best reason to lower amps to 16A or 24A is to prevent higher PEM temps.
The 110V cables are also very unreliable compared to the 240V or wall connectors, so I’d hate to see you burn through the cable sooner.
You must get OVMS as soon as possible! I waited five years of Roadster ownership before I finally got it, and I’ve been kicking myself ever since for not getting it sooner. It is the single best upgrade you can do for less than $160! Now, I can dial the amps down from my bedroom.
OVMS also supports 10 amps/ 240 Volt charging. Not sure why this isn’t doable from the car directly but nonetheless it can do it. This is where I typically charge at.
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