Smart wife!I've never paid attention to the M+S designation. From a hobby site in my neck of the woods, it sounds like you're probably right...ALL all-seasons would likely be able to carry the M+S designation (red highlighting below is mine).
I think my wife is also right (as she always is) when she says for me to stop over-analyzing it. For the Tesla, where I'm driving 99% of the year in non-snowy conditions, get the AS3+ so I can have a little more fun. For her car, which she won't be driving "hard"--ever--get the Crossclimate+ (ie, snowflake) because we'll be counting on her car to get us around in the snow, and the loss of the non-snow driving characteristics won't matter as they won't typically be put to the test.
What Does M+S Mean?
Wed, 2010-12-29 21:41 - DriveSmartBC
One would expect that the markings M+S or Mud and Snow on a tire would mean that it was designed for proper winter traction in all conditions. You might be surprised to find that it only defines a tire whose treads:
It says nothing about the tire's rubber compound and it's ability to stick to compact snow and ice. In fact, at temperatures below 7 C. it can be expected to perform just like a summer tire in these conditions.
- Have multiple pockets or slots in at least one tread edge that extend toward the tread center at least 1/2 inch from the footprint edge
- Measured perpendicularly to the tread centerline, have a mimimum cross-sectional width of 1/16 inch
- Have edges of pockets or slots at angles between 35 and 90 degrees from the direction of travel
- Have a contact surface void area will be a minimum of 25% based on mold dimensions
If you are like most tire buyers, my guess is that you choose an all season tire based on the manufacturer's mileage durability claims. This means a rubber compound that stays hard and does a poorer job of sticking to compact snow and ice.
Tires with the mountain and snowflake design are rated for their ability to provide traction in winter conditions where the temperature is below 7 C. Think of them as low temperature tires and choose them over all season tires when you drive in BC's winter road environment.
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18" OEM Tire replacement choices?
- Thread starter insaneoctane
- Start date
i'll chime in here since i just replaced my stock tires yesterday (and haven't seen anyone mention these) - i went with hankook ventus S1 NOBLE2 H452. $748.20 out the door at america's tire (discount tire), and there's a $50 mail in rebate...so i'm happy with less than $700 for a set of four. we'll see how they do, but so far they feel pretty good and don't seem any noisier than the stock tires (although there was a weird slight floor vibration immediately after driving away yesterday that seems to have gone away). guy at AT asked why i wanted to go with the hankook and not the stock michelins...my response was "$130 per tire."
funny story: the guys at our local AT couldn't figure out how to put the car in gear (either that or they couldn't get the key card to work, although they had no issue unlocking the door with it). i had to pull it into the bay and back it out for them. lifting the car wasn't an issue, as i showed them the jack pads i bought shortly after taking delivery as well as the lift points...they had no issue using them and safely lifting the car.
funny story: the guys at our local AT couldn't figure out how to put the car in gear (either that or they couldn't get the key card to work, although they had no issue unlocking the door with it). i had to pull it into the bay and back it out for them. lifting the car wasn't an issue, as i showed them the jack pads i bought shortly after taking delivery as well as the lift points...they had no issue using them and safely lifting the car.
I think you were looking at the results of the Vredestein tires for stopping distance, the CC is actually 86.2 feet dry, 117 feet wet. Still not as good as the A/S 3+, but better. Based on the below, I think the A/S 3+ snow/ice performance is a non-starter as an all season if you're going to ever have to actually drive in snow/ice.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplayWinter.jsp?ttid=230
I live in New York state and I'm strongly leaning towards going with the CCs all year round. What I don't know is what the rolling resistance is like on them. Does anyone have first hand experience using these tires?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Here are my comments. Obviously no occasion for snow for me but I had to use them since the temperatures dropped into the teens at the North Rim so could not use the PS4S.
Aero wheels on P3D+
Tesla has not provided tire warranty paperwork (despite me asking), and Michelin told me they don't provide a warranty for OEM tires. How did you manage that !?!?
both of those contradict what michelin usa and tesla usa says. its written right there on their website\warranty documentation. you probably should ask to speak to another tesla/michelin representative.
but also, in practice you shouldnt really need paperwork or other proof. a reputable michelin dealer should be able to handle it on your behalf. like a discounttire chain
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW in the US at least MIchelin stopped offering treadwear warranties on OEM tires at least a year or two ago... so probably anyone getting coverage now has an older car that still was covered, but a newer one is not.
The MIchelin website says they stopped providing mileage warranties on model year 2018 OEM tires. Do you know of something that says differently? And what Tesla USA information are you referring to? The vehicle warranty explicitly excludes tires. Do you have anything else?
Costco said they don't deal with Michelin Warranties.
Discount said they weren't sure if the treadwear would apply, but if it did, maybe I'd get $20 per tire with 1/3 of the miles to EOL left, and they would need exquisite records of tire rotations, AND alignments.
My Michelin replacement tires on my motorcycle didn't have any hoops to jump through, very simple.
That was my guess at first, but it looks like scottysize got his car in 2018.
Hence why I wanted to hear from the source on how he got warranty coverage. If any of the previous comments come from experience, please let me know!
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FYI - Michelin warranty
Check out the first post, and then post 16.
My speculation would be since they changed the "no oem warranty" policy in early 2019, but then backdated the change to ending coverage after 2017 cars, anybody who actually complains about this with a 2018 gets covered but they don't want to change the website to say that as it'd encourage more claims.
Just a guess based on the tidbits posted in the past though and the timing in question.
Check out the first post, and then post 16.
My speculation would be since they changed the "no oem warranty" policy in early 2019, but then backdated the change to ending coverage after 2017 cars, anybody who actually complains about this with a 2018 gets covered but they don't want to change the website to say that as it'd encourage more claims.
Just a guess based on the tidbits posted in the past though and the timing in question.
What question I have that I haven't seen discussed. First I have a M3 LR 4W. The current tires have a W speed range.
When looking at tires at Tire Rack, I noticed that many tires have a much better mileage range wiht V range tires.
My car stop speed is 145mph and V-rated tired covered it.
So thoughts on using V-rated tires (oviously with the proper weight rating)?
When looking at tires at Tire Rack, I noticed that many tires have a much better mileage range wiht V range tires.
My car stop speed is 145mph and V-rated tired covered it.
So thoughts on using V-rated tires (oviously with the proper weight rating)?
android04
Active Member
No issues with using a V-rated unless you have a Performance with Performance package and plan on machine out it's top speed.
Holy cow, that's shady. It looks like web archive documents this nicely.
2018+ OEM wasn't excluded until after June 10th, 2019, probably just right before post 18.
Tire Warranty | Michelin Promise Plan
Discount was of little to no help. They said without documentation of every tire rotation and some periodicity of alignments it was a lost cause and the best I could expect is maybe $15 per tire. They told me not to bother.
Took it to a Midas, who although they don't handle Michelin warranties directly, are listed as a dealer. This worked in my favor. Called Michelin, 866-866-6605, selected dealer option and waited on hold for them so they didn't have to waste their time. It turns out all Michelin needed from the dealer was confirmation of tread depth, and that was it. Talked with a rep who recognized they technically didn't cover OEM tires, but offered a courtesy credit of 40% off (~$440 off the original Primacy MXM4s if I went that route). This would be in the form of prepaid card after sending in receipt of new Michelin purchase. Text support was not as helpful, and I kept getting disconnected from a rep before they even said hi. Definitely recommend talking on the phone, going to someone who doesn't natively handle Michelin warranties (so they don't have any incentive to convince you not to try), and speak kindly and calmly to whoever answers the phone.
I had also tried another Michelin direct warranty provider before Midas, and they didn't want to do anything at all without their supervisor there to help go through it. Another reason to go to some non-direct warranty places. The one upside is direct warranty doesn't deal with the prepaid card, just a straight discount at time of purchase.
Update to this:
Went to America's Tire initially and asked for a warranty claim on my stock Primacys. They said that I would have to speak with Michelin directly on the phone to start the claim process, get the claim #, and then come back. I did that, came back, and AT called them after doing the initial inspection and Michelin told them to give me a 35% good will discount on new tires since they technically no longer have warranty on stock tires that come with the car. Given that I got 27k miles on the stock Primacys, 35% discount sounded good enough to me.
I ended up buying Michelin CrossClimate+ (40k tread warranty) because we may take this car to Tahoe. Additionally, Sport 4S' only have 30k mileage warranty, which seems abysmal to me (I plan on claiming warranties on Michelin for as long as I own this car). As you can tell, we drive like a grandmas with this car since we got 27k miles off the stock tires, so performance summer tires weren't necessary. Another positive with the CC+'s is that the sidewall seems to stick out ever so slightly past the rims - hopefully they helps prevent additional curb rashing of those damn rims.
cdrikari
Member
I thought that I would toss a couple more data points onto this thread based on some recent experience.
I took delivery of my M3P in December, and then wanting to not end up trashing the 20" wheels in DC during my commute futzed around for a long time trying to find a set of replacement wheels. Got a set of Sportline TSTs right after the 'tramp stamp' went on, so those went back, and then waited for the COVID boat from China to bring a set of 18 8.5 Silver MW03's over, which finally arrived in early July.
Based on the master tire thread from awhile back, and a few other data points, since I also drive places for work, I thought I'd fail safe and put on a set of 235/45-18 CrossClimate+'s. The noise and vibration difference from my 20" PS4's was...impressive. In a really bad way. It would have been bad enough that I would have probably gotten rid of them even on my Audi, but on the M3P...yeah. On some roads the CrossClimates set up an odd harmonic that just went through the whole car. Solidly the worst tire experience I've had in a long time, and I was pretty unimpressed with the MXM4's that came on my Model S.
I thought that maybe there was a chance that maybe the original balance had been done wrong, so I took it over to a local shop that I trust that knows Teslas and had them road force balance the wheels. That helped with a good portion of the vibration, but not much on the noise front, and after a couple of 300 mi road trips, the vibration started to creep back up too.
I got in touch with the shop, and they helped me run the claim with Michelin (I was about 1500 mi and <60 days on the CrossClimates), which I got replaced with Pilot Sport A/S 4's today (same size/aspect) for the cost of labor. So far, it's a step improvement. At least as good as the PS4's on the drive home, and I think somewhat better. I'll update once I get them broken in.
I took delivery of my M3P in December, and then wanting to not end up trashing the 20" wheels in DC during my commute futzed around for a long time trying to find a set of replacement wheels. Got a set of Sportline TSTs right after the 'tramp stamp' went on, so those went back, and then waited for the COVID boat from China to bring a set of 18 8.5 Silver MW03's over, which finally arrived in early July.
Based on the master tire thread from awhile back, and a few other data points, since I also drive places for work, I thought I'd fail safe and put on a set of 235/45-18 CrossClimate+'s. The noise and vibration difference from my 20" PS4's was...impressive. In a really bad way. It would have been bad enough that I would have probably gotten rid of them even on my Audi, but on the M3P...yeah. On some roads the CrossClimates set up an odd harmonic that just went through the whole car. Solidly the worst tire experience I've had in a long time, and I was pretty unimpressed with the MXM4's that came on my Model S.
I thought that maybe there was a chance that maybe the original balance had been done wrong, so I took it over to a local shop that I trust that knows Teslas and had them road force balance the wheels. That helped with a good portion of the vibration, but not much on the noise front, and after a couple of 300 mi road trips, the vibration started to creep back up too.
I got in touch with the shop, and they helped me run the claim with Michelin (I was about 1500 mi and <60 days on the CrossClimates), which I got replaced with Pilot Sport A/S 4's today (same size/aspect) for the cost of labor. So far, it's a step improvement. At least as good as the PS4's on the drive home, and I think somewhat better. I'll update once I get them broken in.
Thats an interesting experience that youve had with the CC+s. As mentioned above, I installed the CC+s yesterday and today we took a 500+ mile road trip and I didn't notice much difference with the MXM4s in terms of noise. I think the CC+'s are actually a more comfortable ride than the MXM4s. Maybe Ill try out the Pilot Sports after this, but that 30k warranty is just so low. Maybe Ill start gunning it from stop everytime
FYI, ran over a sharp piece of metal and it stuck in the rear driver side tire, no way to patch it. I had bought the tire certs from america's tire for it (luckily), but there is a NATIONWIDE backorder for these tires, so they said I either have to wait a month to get them or find another place to buy one tire and they will reimburse me. Luckily, I found one tire available but fedex is really delaying delivery...
Recommend getting Pilot sport 4 A/S instead of these due to these shortages.
Recommend getting Pilot sport 4 A/S instead of these due to these shortages.
Michelin is transitioning from the original MXM4 "T0" Tesla OEM version of these to a revised "T1" version. That may be the reason for limited supply. Tire Rack no longer shows the T0 at all, only the T1.
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