200 miles review: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4

[gotoma8]

I just got the AS4 and my efficiency went from 256wh/mi lifetime to 350wh/mi from MXM4 to AS4. I’ve only had it for about 200 miles but that’s a big hit. I’m really hoping this gets better over timeI

I just got the AS4 and my efficiency went from 256wh/mi lifetime to 350wh/mi from MXM4 to AS4. I’ve only had it for about 200 miles but that’s a big hit. I’m really hoping this gets better over time.

That can't be right. I when from about 257 lifetime with the MXM4 and 18 areas without the covers to about 275 with the PSAS on 19"s, so, I think it must be the colder weather in January compared summer and winter driving, lifetime.

 

[dfwatt]

You’re right in your assumptions - 18 inch with aeros and mostly highway driving around 75mph. I love the performance of the tires. I think that’s a big hit in range. Before I got these tires I read reviews saying that there’s only a 5-8% efficiency decrease. But anything over that I don’t think I’m willing to take. I might talk to Costco and see if they can replace the tires with MXM4’s within the 30 days return window. I think I’d appreciate more range over performance.

But you can't evaluate efficiency when the tire is new. Even going from your previous MXM4 Tire to a brand new version of it might incur a ~10% range hit initially at least.

 

[gotoma8]

But you can't evaluate efficiency when the tire is new. Even going from your previous MXM4 Tire to a brand new version of it might incur a ~10% range hit initially at least.

Agreed, more tread = less efficiency...

 

[pure9]

Similar drives/routes that I do when I had new MXM4’s result in almost an extra 4-5% range loss. For example, I often do this 22 mile trip (mostly highway) and it has always costed me 6-7% of charge to do it always. With the PSAS4’s on, I lost almost 10-11% of charge. This can’t be just from higher tread or colder weather. I’ve done this drive multiple times in both summer and winter and was easily able to keep my wh/mi under 220 even driving at 80mph. With the new tires I struggle to keep it at 250wh/mi even driving at 65-70mph. I’m really wishing for improvement or hoping that I can get it replaced under Costco’s return policy. Has anyone had any experience replacing tires with Costco?

 

[dfwatt]

Similar drives/routes that I do when I had new MXM4’s result in almost an extra 4-5% range loss. For example, I often do this 22 mile trip (mostly highway) and it has always costed me 6-7% of charge to do it always. With the PSAS4’s on, I lost almost 10-11% of charge. This can’t be just from higher tread or colder weather. I’ve done this drive multiple times in both summer and winter and was easily able to keep my wh/mi under 220 even driving at 80mph. With the new tires I struggle to keep it at 250wh/mi even driving at 65-70mph. I’m really wishing for improvement or hoping that I can get it replaced under Costco’s return policy. Has anyone had any experience replacing tires with Costco?

Actually what you're describing is in fact at least 60% more consumption. That's simply impossible if you're saying that that difference is solely due to tires. If you're losing 10% of charge for a particular route and previously you only lost 6% of charge, unless the battery has declined significantly between those two intervals, you are talking about a greater than 60% increase in consumption or another way of looking at it is greater than 60% decrease in overall efficiency. This would imply an astonishing increase in Drag and at highway speeds most energy goes to overcoming drag rather than rolling resistance.

I think you're conflating a bunch of factors including the possibility that the temperatures on the two drives were different, you're comparing old mxms to new ps4s, and there may be other differences too including your speeds, traffic, etc. There's simply no way that a controlled scientific test would show a 60% difference or thereabouts in Watt hours per mile between those two tires even if the PS4s are brand new.

Also I have a Long Range model 3 that we just bought with the MXM4 and the notion that you were able to keep your watt/hrs per mile at 220 while driving at 80 miles an hour is simply impossible. Since 220whrs/mile is below the so-called canonical range number, this would mean that you would exceed the battery's rated range at 80 miles an hour. No one's ever done that. Unless you're talking about going downhill or downwind . What you're saying simply doesn't add up or square up with massive amounts of data.

 

[Krobbler]

I posted about mine a few pages back but I only lost 20wh/mi when I went from the OEM MXM4's to 265/40/18 PS4AS' on 9.5 width wheels. My route commute is 80% highway at 80mph.

I find it hard to believe that the 235 width PS4AS is worse than the 265's I am running. I would check the main culprits such as alignment or a brake caliper hanging up.

 

[dhrivnak]

When it's time to change out the OK but not great OEM Michelin tires at 44k miles for my Model 3 LR AWD, I was going to order the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 3+ since I had that on my GTI and really liked it. However the Pilot AS4 was listed as available in a week on tirerack.com so I went ahead and got this instead, and I'm glad I got it. While it didn't "transform" my car like going from Pep Boys tires to this, it was way better than the stock Michelin. The day I got the tires it was raining dogs and cats in DE and the tires handled the rain with confidence. Turn in response is sharper though not the same as PS 4 summer tires but that is to be expected. The stock suspension on the Model 3 isn't terrible but not great, so I can't say the car feels like on rails but it does take corners with more grip and confidence. Noise level is slightly higher and no droning at any speed up to 80, quite acceptable.

Overall I love these tires though the only drawback is that my efficiency went down by about 10 to 15%, so I'm losing about 25 to 35 miles of range per charge, but worth the trade-off. I would highly recommend this if you want all season tires.

I have a similar experience with the Cross Climate 2 tires. MUCH better planted and noticeably better handling but a good 10% drop in range. Getting noticeably better after 5,000 miles

 

[gotoma8]

FYI -

Just put back the PS4AS (245/40/19) on Aodhan AFF7 back on the car. We'll see what it gets. Last year I had it on for a total of 7,239 miles. That was from March 26 - December 5, 2022. That's late winter to late fall driving here in the Seattle area. These miles were corrected for the size difference of 1.2% (greater) than the stock 235/45/19. The Aodhans are just under 20lbs, so lighter than the 18" Areos (sans cover) with MXM4. The life time miles at the time I put these on were 32,304 with an average of 263 wh/mi. The PS4AS gave me 293.5 over the 7,239 miles. So, that's an increase of 11.3% over the stock 18" and MXM4. that's not too bad, but the driving feels a lot more sure footed and fun! The PS4AS are supposed to last 40k miles, but the MXM4 only lasted 32k. So, I hope to have about 30k on these before I get new tires. By then, maybe the PS5AS? . Am I happy with the change to 19"s? Yes! Only on long trips does it really matter.

Hope this helps for those still on the fence about these tires. Remember, I got the 245/40 so, there was a little more RR as they are wider as well.

 

[pure9]

Actually what you're describing is in fact at least 60% more consumption. That's simply impossible if you're saying that that difference is solely due to tires. If you're losing 10% of charge for a particular route and previously you only lost 6% of charge, unless the battery has declined significantly between those two intervals, you are talking about a greater than 60% increase in consumption or another way of looking at it is greater than 60% decrease in overall efficiency. This would imply an astonishing increase in Drag and at highway speeds most energy goes to overcoming drag rather than rolling resistance.

I think you're conflating a bunch of factors including the possibility that the temperatures on the two drives were different, you're comparing old mxms to new ps4s, and there may be other differences too including your speeds, traffic, etc. There's simply no way that a controlled scientific test would show a 60% difference or thereabouts in Watt hours per mile between those two tires even if the PS4s are brand new.

Also I have a Long Range model 3 that we just bought with the MXM4 and the notion that you were able to keep your watt/hrs per mile at 220 while driving at 80 miles an hour is simply impossible. Since 220whrs/mile is below the so-called canonical range number, this would mean that you would exceed the battery's rated range at 80 miles an hour. No one's ever done that. Unless you're talking about going downhill or downwind . What you're saying simply doesn't add up or square up with massive amounts of data.

None of the factors changed except the tires in this time period (I scraped off a tiny piece of the under-carriage fiber glass aero shield but I doubt that would affect aerodynamics that much?). I had recorded my numbers from Jan-Mar (colder months) before I got the tires. Efficiency of roughly 265wh/mi during that period over 3,000 miles (with aero caps) on worn out MXM4’s. As I’m writing this post I’ve been putting more miles on the tires. As of now I’ve put a little bit over 500 miles and overall efficiency is now 315wh/mi (with aero caps) and I’m trying to drive as efficiently as I can, and not using heating at all to maximize range. So it is getting better from what I reported earlier at 350 wh/mi but I wonder if I’ll ever be able to get back under atleast 270-280wh/mi. I also would drive more aggressive with the MXM4’s, with HVAC. I’d take that over constantly worrying about how much range I’m losing. Still a big hit from 265 considering it’s within 3 months of similar weather conditions. I’m not sure if there are other factors into play here? I touched my brake pads after a 40 mile drive and the pads weren’t hot (to eliminate the possibility of a bad alignment)

Also, the 22-mile drive there is an overall drop in elevation from start to finish so it is somewhat downhill yes.

 

[Krobbler]

Here is another point of reference for the Pilot Sport AS4. This is 2.5 days of my daily commute. Cruise set to 80 to 85 on the highway and I would say over 80% highway.

Alignment was done 2 hours before summers went on. I am running 18x9.5 Gram Lights with 265/40 PSAS4's. Minimally worse efficiency and a giant improvement in safety and handling.

 

[gotoma8]

Here is another point of reference for the Pilot Sport AS4. This is 2.5 days of my daily commute. Cruise set to 80 to 85 on the highway and I would say over 80% highway.

Alignment was done 2 hours before summers went on. I am running 18x9.5 Gram Lights with 265/40 PSAS4's. Minimally worse efficiency and a giant improvement in safety and handling.

View attachment 928076

Krobbler, that is really good! Surprised the my 19x8.5 (21lbs) Aodhan AFF7 with 245/40 PS4AS is getting very bad range so far since I reinstalled them in March. Averaging 313 wh/mi for about 1200 miles. Last year, with them on from March - Dec with about 8000 they averaged 272 wh/mi.

 

[D Good]

Here is another point of reference for the Pilot Sport AS4. This is 2.5 days of my daily commute. Cruise set to 80 to 85 on the highway and I would say over 80% highway.

Alignment was done 2 hours before summers went on. I am running 18x9.5 Gram Lights with 265/40 PSAS4's. Minimally worse efficiency and a giant improvement in safety and handling.

View attachment 928076

Good lord. I’m lucky to get 300 Wh/Mile doing 80! How are you getting 258? That’s insane?!

 

[drtimhill]

Good lord. I’m lucky to get 300 Wh/Mile doing 80! How are you getting 258? That’s insane?!

Downhill both ways?

 

[Krobbler]

Good lord. I’m lucky to get 300 Wh/Mile doing 80! How are you getting 258? That’s insane?!

Michigan is pretty flat but I am doing nothing special other than setting AP on my 45 mile commute to work. My 245/45 winters on aero wheels gets much worse range than my 265 AS4's in the same weather. I've said before in this thread. I think everyone's poor efficiency claims on the AS4's are other factors than the tires.

 

[gotoma8]

Michigan is pretty flat but I am doing nothing special other than setting AP on my 45 mile commute to work. My 245/45 winters on aero wheels gets much worse range than my 265 AS4's in the same weather. I've said before in this thread. I think everyone's poor efficiency claims on the AS4's are other factors than the tires.

Mine is 245/40R19 on 21lbs Aodhan AFF7 wheels and last year, between March and December, I got 292 wh/mi (adjusted for diameter difference). So, far this March, about a month and a half and over cool temps and rain, I am getting 308 wh/mi the lat 2000 miles.

 

[brkaus]

Model 3 with stock wheels. Recently put on PilotSport AS4...

Edit- reposted with data from the correct car

 

[gotoma8]

Thank you, great information!

 

[dfwatt]

Model 3 with stock wheels. Recently put on PilotSport AS4...


View attachment 931383

Edit- reposted with data from the correct car

Curious where you got those watt hours per mile figures? They are way off at the lower speeds. I mean waaaay off.

 

[brkaus]

Curious where you got those watt hours per mile figures? They are way off at the lower speeds. I mean waaaay off.

Teslafi.

But I think the lower speeds could be explained by items such as pre-heat that might get allocated into the first part of a drive. Or even where barely moving and heat/ac dominates.

Plus, the number of actual miles under 25mph is pretty small.

Now, if I can figure out how to get this data before/after the tire change.

 

[dfwatt]

Teslafi.

But I think the lower speeds could be explained by items such as pre-heat that might get allocated into the first part of a drive. Or even where barely moving and heat/ac dominates.

Plus, the number of actual miles under 25mph is pretty small.

Now, if I can figure out how to get this data before/after the tire change.

Obviously if you're including information about heat AC or preconditioning of the battery in your kilowatt hours per mile that is misleading and in a real sense uninterpretable. Because you don't know how much is the drivetrain and how much is the other stuff.