2014 Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid

[dsm363]

This is a difficult question. If you do want to have your electricity from solar,wind and nuclear Power Plants the Model S has an advantage.

Still, the Panamera Hybrid combines the advantages of both an electric and a gasoline engine. It's a sustainable car, because the small battery can be replaced or recycled.

I think the Tesla's monster battery is a different animal on that regard. If you do look through these forum, degradation is already an issue.

That is not true but that is expected. The Tesla pack can be recycled as well. There has not been a degradation issue either. Good effort though.

 

[vfx]

Saw this on the air last night. They seem so desperate to me.


http://www.ispot.tv/ad/71kO/porsche-panamera-contradictions

 

[brianman]

Ad:

• "Few things on Earth move faster than electricity..."

Me:

• "... or the Model S that runs on it."

Ad:

• "... but we're working on it."

Me:

• "... but are too foolish or lacking in boldness to ditch the engine baggage."

Get some cajones, Porsche. Compete with Tesla on pure EV. We know you can do it. We welcome it.

The Porsche Principle - Porsche Philosophy - Porsche at a glance - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG

Porsche is a company that is not afraid to tread its own path.

Prove it. We're waiting.

 

[cwerdna]

Not sure if anyone posted this here already:
New Plug-in Hybrid and Extended Wheelbase Variants Added to Revised Panamera Range

Mentions that the base price of the "S E-Hybrid" is $99K, not including $975 destination charge + taxes, fees, etc.

From the above URL

The new Panamera S E-Hybrid improves upon the concept offered by the previous Panamera S Hybrid with a more powerful electric motor, a higher-performance battery that supplies more energy and is able be recharged from home or public vehicle charging stations. The electric drive produces 95 hp, more than double the power of the previous model’s electric motor (47 hp). Electricity is stored in a newly developed lithium-ion battery, which at 9.4 kWh has increased capacity over the previous battery (1.7 kWh). Via the integrated on-board charging componentry and the standard Porsche Universal Charger (AC), the battery can reach full charge within approximately two and a half hours when connected to a 240V power source.

and the rest of the press release, it seems it has no Frankenplug, despite Porsche being one of the Frankenplug "players".

 

[Realist]

In the new german Magazine Auto Motor und Sport there is a comparison between Model S and Panamera S Hybrid.

The Porsche wins. Tesla's powertrain is unbeatable smooth and powerful with more trunk space. The Panamera however seems to be in another league regarding quality, safety and comfort.

Tesla has respectable handling figures, Porsche's better still.

 

[polyphase]

Home turf advantage for the Panamera. That said, the interior of most top-end sedans are more sumptuous than the minimalist Tesla. Fair point. Likewise the driver assistance technology common in this price segment is mostly missing from the Tesla. That seems to matter more to the German reviewer.

Still, I look at the Panamera and think "dinosaur." The Tesla is a driver's car. The muscular Germans are cars for people who can't wait for autonomous vehicles to arrive (as an aside, when driving yourself is banned, how much will acceleration matter?). Look at the guts of the Panamera. It reminds me of an expensive mechanical watch. Beautiful in its baroque complexity and prized by collectors. Gloriously obsolete. Nobody gets one to tell time. The Tesla is beautifully crafted but thoroughly modern with no concession to the past.

Finally, just to be snarky, a 7.5kwh battery? 25km range? Are they kidding? They should have just put in a hatch to pop in a few AA batteries and dispensed with the fancy chargers. This is not an EV.

The internals of the Panamera, way too much stuff:

 

[Realist]

Of course the Tesla’s design and concept appeals to a lot of people. It reminds many of the simplicity of an Apple product.

But a car is not an iphone.

The low battery pack gives the car an advantage through its low center of gravity and the huge luggage space. I don’t think that the Model S has enough ground clearance for such a design. The BMW i3’s battery also sits in the floor. But the battery cell design and arrangement is different, there’s more protection and the car rides a lot higher.

The Panamera Hybrid has a complex 2 engine layout. But all together weight is similar to the Model S and there’s still enough room for 4. Rear headroom is much better in fact.
I believe the Plug-In Hybrid will dominate for the next 15-20 years. Tesla has yet to prove the durability and sustainability of their cars.

 

[ecarfan]

Realist, fair enough, but to me a car and a smartphone are both electronic consumer products that benefit from a carefully designed and intuitive UI. My father sold his Panamera to buy a Tesla S. The Panamera, as gorgeous and sophisticated as it is, suffers from an excessively complex UI and way too many mechanical buttons in its interior. I admire the clean uncluttered interior of the Tesla, the brilliantly designed UI, and the extraordinary cargo capacity.

And it appears that the Model S is taking market share from the Panamera this past year. It is amazing that the first full production car from a new company can take buyers from one of the most prestigious top quality German manufacturers.

My money (in the form of TSLA) is on EVs capturing major market share a decade from now.

P.S. I have owned five Porsches ranging from the 356 to the 911 and currently have a Cayman.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I believe the Plug-In Hybrid will dominate for the next 15-20 years.

That's what everyone expected, but the (worldwide) market is voting for EVs right now. As for the review, from what most people say, there's a huge home turf advantage in German car magazines. And the whole German market reaction to EVs is pretty much "meh" (so I don't think of them as a really good indication of the direction of the EV market).

 

[richkae]

I believe the Plug-In Hybrid will dominate for the next 15-20 years.

I believe that the Plug-In Hybrid will be a gateway drug to pure EVs. When people have a 25km EV range and discover that they drive 40-50km each day, and almost never more than 100km, they will pine for a pure EV. They will curse the oil changes, gas stops and obnoxious noise and vibration when their EV range runs out. They will look at the superchargers with envy while they pay at the pump.

- - - Updated - - -

The Panamera Hybrid has a complex 2 engine layout. But all together weight is similar to the Model S and there’s still enough room for 4. Rear headroom is much better in fact.

I need more than room for 4. I need room for 5 and luggage, groceries, camping gear, toys, clothes, baby strollers, office supplies...

- - - Updated - - -

Tesla has yet to prove the durability and sustainability of their cars.

Granted. Also granted that Porsche makes wonderful cars that are very durable. I have had 2 and loved them both. However they were very expensive to maintain.
Any of the 5 years of my 20+ years of Porsche ownership ( first years, middle years, or later years ) were much more expensive than my first 5+ years of Tesla ownership ( combined ).
We will see how that compares a few years down the road.

 

[brianman]

In the new german Magazine Auto Motor und Sport there is a comparison between Model S and Panamera S Hybrid.

Link?

- - - Updated - - -

The low battery pack gives the car an advantage through its low center of gravity and the huge luggage space. I don’t think that the Model S has enough ground clearance for such a design.

Math check:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-buying/porsche/panamera/specifications/

Ground Clearance: 5.66 in.

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/specs

Ground Clearance: 6.00 in.

 

[Realist]

Realist, fair enough, but to me a car and a smartphone are both electronic consumer products that benefit from a carefully designed and intuitive UI. My father sold his Panamera to buy a Tesla S. The Panamera, as gorgeous and sophisticated as it is, suffers from an excessively complex UI and way too many mechanical buttons in its interior. I admire the clean uncluttered interior of the Tesla, the brilliantly designed UI, and the extraordinary cargo capacity.

To me and hopefully to many other drivers a car is not just an electronic consumer product. In the end this is the second most expensive item apart from your home.

The Porsche is designed to be driven. Many functions can be activated directly without taking your eyes off the road.

The Tesla's UI is revolutionary. But is it really better? You always have to look at the screen in order to point your fingers where you want to. You always have to take your eyes off the road even if you only want to turn the lights on or change the radio stations. To me this big screen is rather dangerous in a car. Your focus should be on the road.

The design concepts are completely different but this big touchscreen design will certainly not be the future. You will rather a combination of voice control, head-up display and screen.

 

[StephenM]

The Tesla's UI is revolutionary. But is it really better? You always have to look at the screen in order to point your fingers where you want to. You always have to take your eyes off the road even if you only want to turn the lights on or change the radio stations. To me this big screen is rather dangerous in a car. Your focus should be on the road.

It doesn't sound like you've spent much time behind the wheel of a Model S. Tesla's UI is very intuitive and reviewers of most automotive magazines have said as much. Turn on the lights? Wouldn't you have this on auto mode anyway? Furthermore, you can use the buttons on the steering wheel to control radio, activate voice commands, control fan speed on your A/C, etc... Most vital functions that you can do on the touchscreen, if you prefer to use those.

 

[brianman]

1. I haven't touched the lights while in Drive in any car since before the year 2000.
2. You can change the radio station in Model S by clicking the Next and Prev buttons on the left side of the steering wheel.
3. And StephenM covered the rest of what I'd probably say.

 

[Doug_G]

+1 to above. The Model S is incredibly easy to operate - better than any car I have driven, and FAR better than most.

 

[richkae]

The Tesla's UI is revolutionary. But is it really better? You always have to look at the screen in order to point your fingers where you want to. You always have to take your eyes off the road even if you only want to turn the lights on or change the radio stations. To me this big screen is rather dangerous in a car. Your focus should be on the road.

The design concepts are completely different but this big touchscreen design will certainly not be the future. You will rather a combination of voice control, head-up display and screen.

The Tesla Model S UI is a combination of voice control, heads-up display, and screen - and buttons/stalks around the wheel. It has everything you asked for.
The heads up display(s) are on either side of the speedometer - in line with the steering wheel. There are 2 and they are configurable with the thumbwheels on the steering wheel - with user selected elements from the touch screen. They aren't on the windshield - but since they don't require you taking your eyes off the road to see them, they are equivalent.
When driving, there is little reason to ever look at or touch the big screen.

 

[[email protected]]

918 marries the simplicity of the ev with the complexity of the ice with the !@#$%^&* of the synergy of ice/ev....sum here:

$845,000 Porsche 918 Spyder burns to the ground in Canadian gas station | Motoramic - Yahoo Autos

Thanks, I will pass.....

 

[RobStark]

Meanwhile Panamera PHEV sales inch past the 1500 unit mark 2014 YTD.

 

[Kofi]

Meanwhile Panamera PHEV sales inch past the 1500 unit mark 2014 YTD.

Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard

 

[miimura]

Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard

RobStark was likely talking about global sales. InsideEVs tracks USA sales.