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2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

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Up 2% in premarket. would be awesome if it held.

Even with Tesla Network ramping up very slowly and eventually capturing a small portion of ridesharing and Autopilot declining in price quickly over the next five years, my financial model estimates Tesla is worth a lot more than what Ron's estimates would suggest in the next three years.

I usually find myself disagreeing with your estimates but secretly hoping they're right.
 
German based Berenberg upgrades TSLA; snippets via Sneaking Alpha:

Berenberg raves about Tesla
Jun. 13, 2017 7:44 AM ET|About: Tesla Motors (TSLA)|By: Clark Schultz, SA News Editor

Germany-based Berenberg upgrades Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) to a Buy rating on its view that the company won't face mass-market EV competition from traditional manufacturers.

Analyst Alexander Haissl calls near-term results "unimportant" as the company works its way to "superior" free cash flow realization in the long term.

"Tesla's disruptive potential encompasses the vehicle, the entire production process and the product-to-market strategy. Once the business reaches scale, the cash generation potential is significantly superior to existing premium OEMs, with cash flow per vehicle more than 50% higher," writes Haissl.

Berenberg lifts its price target on Tesla to $464.
 
I think Ron's SP estimates for the next three years are super conservative....

He predicted $600 in 2018 and $1,000 by 2020.

I estimate $1,000 is possible, although not probable, this year if Model 3 ramp up progresses smoothly and profitably.

If Ron is right, I'll be able to pick up more shares at reasonable prices later this summer when I sell two of my condos.
haha! -- "I think Ron's SP estimates for the next three years are super conservative"

yeah... that's because you're Value Analyst... you've got a solid bead on "Value"... not a trendy tech stock follower in any way... simply a "Value" calculation... right?

so did you go back and update your DCF yet?... take out the 100k M3 in 2017?... or not?
 
i am somewhat confused, in first 3 minutes, price UP $8+, high vol, yet A/D line DOWN.
Help a noobie
upload_2017-6-13_9-35-48.png
 
See TSLA is going above 365 quickly. Again if you are a long term TSLA investor, try not panic sell but sit back and enjoy the ride! This advice for myself
And don't think this is the last time we will see large swings in TSLA SP in just a matter of days. As the stock price rises the swings will exacerbate but the general direction will always return to UP unless something catastrophic happens.
 
Even with Tesla Network ramping up very slowly and eventually capturing a small portion of ridesharing and Autopilot declining in price quickly over the next five years, my financial model estimates Tesla is worth a lot more than what Ron's estimates would suggest in the next three years.
Mostly because you value Tesla Energy and you also assume that Model 3 will develop more or less as planned by Tesla IIRC. Oddly, most of us largely agree. You also assume some glitches, so not perfection. For all of us who are bulls, the largest single question is probably execution risk for Tesla with two major issues; supplier problems and factory problems. Both of those are logically assigned probabilities of somewhere around 40%, but potential severity of either one is devilishly difficult to estimate.

Assuming those two issues are the most serious ones it is fascinating that most bearish analysts see lack of demand and competition as the largest issues, with a substantial subset seeing subsidies as the largest driver.
For those who think subsidies are the primary issues the case of the US State of Georgia is instructive. Bloomberg points out Tesla sales kept on after a minor blip but Leaf sales plummeted.
The Electric Car Revolution Now Faces Its Biggest Test

As they point out a truly competitive product survives and thrives regardless of subsidies. That said, with which I mostly agree, cases such as Norway can change that dynamic, if the subsidies are sufficiently dramatic. For those countries that exempt BEV's from motor vehicle taxation which is half or more the total new vehicle price, of course subsidies do matter.

The US Federal $7500 tax credit and the former Georgia $5000 credit will certainly move the bar on cheap cars. The impact such fixed monetary value subsidies have is a very high percentage of the cheapest and not much at the top end. IMHO, that is quite sensible tax policy. Anybody who buys a >US$100,000 vehicle needs no tax subsidy. For that matter, such vehicles will only sell when they are demonstrably competitive and desirable.

That brings us to the Model 3. Many here and elsewhere argue that the "entry-level luxury" market is extremely price-competitive. Were that so, the BMW 3-Series would not be such a stellar example of that category, because it is never the cheapest and is often not even the best performer. In fact, a quick look at consumer products in general shows that the best dispassionate value is rarely the best seller, in anything at all. Most of us argue that we're logical, but human beings are not logical in all ways. I'll skip all the examples but for anybody who doubts the thesis I'll refer them to:
Amazon.com: Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds eBook: Charles Mackay: Books

This, written in 1840's, really is the fundamental text. I made it required reading when I taught marketing 101

Amazon.com: Marketing Management (14th Edition) (9780132102926): Philip T. Kotler, Kevin Lane Keller: Books
Kotler has been the go-to basic Marketing text for decades. I had an early edition when I sudied the subject and taught with several later editions. It still is the standard.

If, after studying these two books anyone really thinks price competition is the driving force, I am prepared to offer Yugos, Chevys, Chevrolet Sparks and much else.

Tesla products are not primarily price competitive. We all make such arguments, especially with industrial products like PowerPack and Solar Roof. Integration, reliability and simplicity rank high for public utility speakers, even, with price ranking importantly but not ultimately.
Nationalism and technological bias even drive gigantic commercial decisions such as A350 vs B787. Honestly, almost everyone actually knows there is not much operational difference, but that knowledge is denied by those who hold near-religious preference fro one vs the other. Price often is used as a justification even though costs end out not being much different. It is always easy to manipulate price to say what one wants to present.

So, Tesla sells directly, does not overtly negotiate, does not conventionally advertise and uses social media to generate continuing enthusiasm even for industrial projects. Price competition, no! Promote an officially low base and upset, sure! Package leases to ensure that the advantages of operating lease definitions can accrue to reduce payment, yes! We all need to understand that Tesla has highly advanced marketing, enough so that traditionalists cannot even see it happening.

A quick read of 1841 Mackay might help remind us about human social influences. Maybe we'll see ourselves as Kool-Aid drinkers too.:rolleyes:
 
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And don't think this is the last time we will see large swings in TSLA SP in just a matter of days. As the stock price rises the swings will exacerbate but the general direction will always return to UP unless something catastrophic happens.
Absolutely agree. The funny thing is that some people in this forum seem only used to TLSA up 5 or 10 but sad if it swing back the similar amount. TSLA is a long term investment stock and reward will be enormous if Elon execute all the plans nicely (I chose the word nicely not perfectly). Well if you are a day trader, good luck on timing the Market...
 
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Mostly because you value Tesla Energy and you also assume that Model 3 will develop more or less as planned by Tesla IIRC. Oddly, most of us largely agree. You also assume some glitches, so not perfection. For all of us who are bulls, the largest single question is probably execution risk for Tesla with two major issues; supplier problems and factory problems. Both of those are logically assigned probabilities of somewhere around 40%, but potential severity of either one is devilishly difficult to estimate.

You do remember correctly. I would add, however, that my 2020+ estimates are more bullish than all sell-side estimates I have seen. I believe Elon's recent comment "10-12 Gigafactories, maybe 20" aligns more with my estimates.

I do need to be more mindful of supplier/factory disruptions, but note that this risk will decline in importance as Tesla builds the subsequent, vertically integrated, and geographically diversified Gigafactories 3-6.

I'm not too concerned with Model 3 ramp-up running into short-term minor hiccups, as these would not materially impact Tesla's long-term durable competitive advantages.

Assuming those tow issues are the most serious ones it is fascinating that most bearish analysts see lack of demand and competition as the largest issues, with a substantial subset seeing subsidies as the largest driver.
For those who think subsidies are the primary issues the case of the US State of Georgia is instructive. Bloomberg points out Tesla sales kept on after a minor blip but Leaf sales plummeted.
The Electric Car Revolution Now Faces Its Biggest Test

As they point out a truly competitive product survives and thrives regardless of subsidies. That said, with which I mostly agree, cases such as Norway can change that dynamic, if the subsidies are sufficiently dramatic. For those countries that exempt BEV's from motor vehicle taxation which is half or more the total new vehicle price, of course subsidies do matter.

The US Federal $7500 tax credit and the former Georgia $5000 credit will certainly move the bar on cheap cars. The impact such fixed monetary value subsidies have is a very high percentage of the cheapest and not much at the top end. IMHO, that is quite sensible tax policy. Anybody who buys a >US$100,000 vehicle needs no tax subsidy. For that matter, such vehicles will only sell when they are demonstrably competitive and desirable.

I agree that Tesla's cars do not need tax subsidies to be competitive vs. ICE options, even before substantial battery cost decreases set to arrive as Gigafactory 1 ramps up. The fact that Tesla will be able to reduce the cost of batteries by $5k+ per car, more than ICE manufacturers' profit margin in percentage terms, is an eye-opening revelation.

That brings us to the Model 3. Many here and elsewhere argue that the "entry-level luxury" market is extremely price-competitive. Were that so, the BMW 3-Series would not be such a stellar example of that category, because it is never the cheapest and is often not even the best performer. In fact, a quick look at consumer products in general shows that the best dispassionate value is rarely the best seller, in anything at all. Most of us argue that we're logical, but human beings are not logical in all ways. I'll skip all the examples but for anybody who doubts the thesis I'll refer them to:
Amazon.com: Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds eBook: Charles Mackay: Books

This, written in 1840's, really is the fundamental text. I made it required reading when I taught marketing 101

Amazon.com: Marketing Management (14th Edition) (9780132102926): Philip T. Kotler, Kevin Lane Keller: Books
Kotler has been the go-to basic Marketing text for decades. I had an early edition when I sudied the subject and taught with several later editions. It still is the standard.

If, after studying these two books anyone really thinks price competition is the driving force, I am prepared to offer Yugos, Chevys, Chevrolet Sparks and much else.

Tesla products are not primarily price competitive. We all make such arguments, especially with industrial products like PowerPack and Solar Roof. Integration, reliability and simplicity rank high for public utility speakers, even, with price ranking importantly but not ultimately.
Nationalism and technological bias even drive gigantic commercial decisions such as A350 vs B787. Honestly, almost everyone actually knows there is not much operational difference, but that knowledge is denied by those who hold near-religious preference fro one vs the other. Price often is used as a justification even though costs end out not being much different. It is always easy to manipulate price to say what one wants to present.

So, Tesla sells directly, does not overtly negotiate, does not conventionally advertise and uses social media to generate continuing enthusiasm even for industrial projects. Price competition, no! Promote an officially low base and upset, sure! Package leases to ensure that the advantages of operating lease definitions can accrue to reduce payment, yes! We all need to understand that Tesla has highly advanced marketing, enough so that traditionalists cannot even see it happening.

A quick read of 1841 Mackay might help remind us about human social influences. Maybe we'll see ourselves as Kool-Aid drinkers too.:rolleyes:

Thank you for the quick marketing lesson. I will look into the books you listed.
 
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Ron Barons bullish explanation is quite superficial, not much
Better than Chanos bearish one. To think these people are
Billionaires is quite amazing.

I agree, but also goes to show that simple long-term strategies can produce superior results.

Sometimes investors overanalyze details (e.g. bears focusing on monthly Model S/X deliveries) and sabotage long-term performance.
 
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