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2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

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... (She claims in Thai "we don't pronounce the consonants at the end of words" and so she tries to improve my English each day.):D
More O/T: We had a Thai cook one summer. I think you're exaggerating with the "don't pronounce final consonants" stuff.

As in: " Youh ora? Teh mii"

translates to "Your order? Ten minutes".

ALL consonants after the first are optional!
 
I disagree. It's pretty close to perfect. I wouldn't change anything except autonomous driving now. I love the white seating and everything else. The frunk is the only thing... I find it stunning. Now I'm getting to see the volume of Tesla's around though utilizing our local services and am seeing them everyday showing me the popularity and viability is stronger than I realized. Saw a gorgeous matte black S today and would love to get that colour down the road. TT was trying to figure out how to play with charts this AM in the car, and I am a little afraid to show him!!!
Wait till M3s hit the roads. I foresee a Tesla craze sweeping across the United States and then across the world not dissimilar to Apple phenomenon. If you and I can buy a $100k Tesla (and both of us are pretty darn financially responsible and relatively conservative adults) with zero regrets then imagine the kind of scarcity demand that is about to hit this country when anybody who can afford a $45 to $60 k car aspires to buy one and there are simply not enough to satisfy the skyrocketing demand. I foresee a strong secondary market for M3s developing. I have yet to see a single person who doesn't think that the car is super cool. Sometimes the biggest single determinant of a stock's performance is the coolness of the brand and sophistication of products which Tesla has in spades. Plus a super genius charismatic CEO who had the brilliance to dump that Johnny Depp chick.
 
Maybe wrong thread but I fully expect TSLA to move 50 points up or down sometime in a year. I have no idea why. Because I am strong long I build up $$ and set an arbitrary number to buy when that event happens. I have been riding $310.90 for some time. If it doesn't execute it is ok. I'm also thinking about a smaller buy arould $320. I have no shares above $300 so this is bullish for me. I actually cheer the unexpected drops.
 
Trendtrader007:
Okay- well I have my own opinions on your super genius inventor; whereas he is brilliant and innovative for sure- charisma is not exactly radiating from his monotonous tone..... but yes, if he doesn't allow ego to dictate the bottom line, the product will thrive without a doubt. I do think marketing is taking place whether or not Tesla is perpetuating it or not, and is vital to success. At this point Tesla has the IT factor, and ergo survive on word of mouth and cult following. This is enough to sustain, and yes potentially grow any company to epic proportions. However, to get the convience one needs to make Tesla not simply a novelty but a "way of life" marketing is key to driving (or not driving) Tesla forward. It is not just car production. We need more super stations, locale in the right places (e.g. The Loop in STL), and next to the right companies that cater to the population (e.g. Whole Foods). This is what will make the product infallible..... I think it's on it's way. When that happens those 400-500 calls will be a distant memory
 
I am. I believe both things are true, flat for 3-4 months and $400 by the end of December.

Edit Addition:
Made two slight corrections to my previous post.
TSLA so rarely trades flat though. It's up 10% then down 10% then up again. I'm wondering why I don't just buy long term ITM puts and calls at the same time and sell them when they become profitable instead of trying to time the short term rises with calls. Anyone done something this crazy with a volatile stock like this?
 
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Our car is named something business related, so for hopeful anonymity I'll decline to answer. We got the six seater with all captain seats and the vegan leather white interior? I really like the model, no complaints thus far. The frunk is a bit hard to close and that's about it!
We too will get the six seater when the time comes. No worries on not sharing the car name.
 
Trendtrader007:
Okay- well I have my own opinions on your super genius inventor; whereas he is brilliant and innovative for sure- charisma is not exactly radiating from his monotonous tone..... but yes, if he doesn't allow ego to dictate the bottom line, the product will thrive without a doubt. I do think marketing is taking place whether or not Tesla is perpetuating it or not, and is vital to success. At this point Tesla has the IT factor, and ergo survive on word of mouth and cult following. This is enough to sustain, and yes potentially grow any company to epic proportions. However, to get the convience one needs to make Tesla not simply a novelty but a "way of life" marketing is key to driving (or not driving) Tesla forward. It is not just car production. We need more super stations, locale in the right places (e.g. The Loop in STL), and next to the right companies that cater to the population (e.g. Whole Foods). This is what will make the product infallible..... I think it's on it's way. When that happens those 400-500 calls will be a distant memory
I argued Tesla had the potential to be a Lovemark in my graduate marketing class. The folks in my class didn't take me seriously. Granted, this was 2012.
 
More O/T: We had a Thai cook one summer. I think you're exaggerating with the "don't pronounce final consonants" stuff.

As in: " Youh ora? Teh mii"

translates to "Your order? Ten minutes".

ALL consonants after the first are optional!

Of course all the static in communication with my wife may--just may--be exaggerated by hearing loss compounded by an occupational disability called "lack of listening," or as she would say "too much talking." Look at the frilling length of my posts.
 
IMG_0193.PNG
Okay here's my last post for the evening. I compared current charts to 1999 and I see tons of similarities
This is the basic scenario I see likely unfold:
August (rest of), September and October we steadily but relatively slowly go up with sharp but short lived corrections in TSLA and then both the Nasdaq and TSLA go super crazy come November and we double or triple over next two months of November and December and game over by January
See supporting charts below
 
Bottomline:
Right or wrong the SP may frustrate for a couple of months more and then seriously ramp up towards the end of the year
If so then I'll be laughing my way to the bank for not only would I get a chance to buy more TSLA in 6 to 8 weeks but I'll end up making a killing in all my options plus get LT capital gains in much of my stocks
Admittedly, I'm building castles in the air but if Tyrion Lannister can continue to successfully counsel Daenerys despite multiple setbacks so shall I continue to skate on thin ice until the white walkers come
 
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Do you think whoever is manipulating daily prices with "mandatory mornings dips" and "afternoon descents" is making or lowing money, net?

Also, do you take a position to benefit from the two seemingly reliable daily moves?

Curious about your thoughts...

Whether someone manipulating TSLA makes money on the manipulation depends upon several factors. So much of the ability to make money depends upon whether we are in an uptrend or a downtrend and whether that particular manipulation succeeds. Here are examples from the easiest to the more difficult, using today's trading as an example.

tsla17aug22.JPG

Capping
This is probably the most profitable manipulation if it is successful. The secret to short-selling profits is to sell high and then buy low. If you are selling right at the daily high, then your purchase at virtually any other point during the day will be profitable. Let's say the stock rises to 342 and you and your fellow shorts start selling however much is necessary to push the stock below 342. In a typical day, the stock price eventually sinks because you have discouraged the longs and you have encouraged shorts. You buy lower in small increments and walk away with a profit

Mandatory Morning Dip (MMD)
Offhand, this type of manipulation looks like it is more difficult to make money with. You start selling like crazy when the stock price shows some weakness or there is any negative news to build upon. In order for the MMD to be profitable on its own and profitable that same day, you need to buy at a price point that is less than the sell-in price when you began the MMD. Fortunately, algos, weak longs, tag-along shorts, and stop-loss triggers will assist you in seeing the losses continue after you start them. Nonetheless, MMDs are quite often not profitable in the same day. What you need is to use an MMD as a part of a bigger strategy to create and continue a downtrend. Let's say you start selling about 10:30am in the 341-340 range. If you can buy back in the 338 range, great, you've made some money. The problem is that the bottom of the dip comes and goes quickly and you might not be able to buy in lower than you sold. No worries, and here's why. You've just taken one for the team and cannot walk away with a profit that day. Lo and behold, though, the Mandatory Morning Dip is successful at preventing a green day and TSLA opens lower the next day. "The team" consists not only of other shorts but also that rather large accumulation of short selling that you've already done. You buy in the next day when the stock has continued its downtrend and not only has the dip transaction been profitable, but your other short shares are now more valuable because of this effort.

Slow Descent into Closing
This manipulation is much like the Mandatory Morning Dip except for two reasons: 1) you get more bang for your buck with the slow descent into close because volume is lower in late afternoon and 2) because the descent is slower, you have more time to buy after others have taken up the work of depressing the stock and cash out profitably for the day. Your job is to get the rock rolling downhill. Once the trend is established, the usual suspects, algos, weak longs, other shorts, stop-loss triggers, etc. can keep the rock rolling downhill for quite some time.

The Importance of Uptrend vs. Downtrend
So much of the reason for manipulations is to start a downtrend or encourage a downtrend to continue. If the stock price is falling and you are waiting a week to buy and close a short position you created during a manipulation, it's easy money. Virtually all short-seller manipulations are profitable during a downtrend if you wait a few days to close the position you opened to manipulate. The other side of the coin is uptrends in the stock price. You may manipulate during an uptrend to help stop that uptrend, but you're most likely going to lose money on the manipulation. You're "taking one for the team" in that you're helping all the other shorts (and your vast quantities of previously-created short positions), but if you can turn that uptrend into a downtrend then your existing short holdings will benefit greatly. Consider, too, if a capping effort fails. If you were capping at 342 today and the stock suddenly ran up to 350, you're taking a loss for the day. Capping is only profitable if you're successful. If you are unsuccessful, you will lose money,at least from the vantage point of that day's trading.

How do I take advantage of these manipulations? I try to buy during a Mandatory Morning Dip when I'm adding shares. That's very often the low of the day. Sometimes I will buy late on a Friday afternoon, expecting the Amateur hour (first hour of market trading) on Monday to boost the stock enough to sell for a weekend gain. It often works, but I lost money (on paper) this past weekend when we had no run-up in the stock price on Monday morning. I don't have time to day trade and don't really try very often to make short-term money.

Where the patterns have made me money is when I realize that patterns have changed. For example, leading up to November of last year the shorts were very successful in pushing the stock price of TSLA down using these three manipulations. Longs had an underlying dread of the coming SCTY merger, and all the pieces were in place for a downtrend to continue. When TSLA reached about 180, though, the manipulations started to fail. We saw capping that couldn't hold, we saw MMDs that didn't dip nearly far enough, and we saw slow descents into closings turn into rallies into close. I upped my leverage at that point and did a pretty good job of calling the bottom. J19 150 calls were selling for as low as $50/share and I backed the truck up and started loading.

Hoping these thoughts are helpful.
 
TSLA so rarely trades flat though. It's up 10% then down 10% then up again. I'm wondering why I don't just buy long term ITM puts and calls at the same time and sell them when they become profitable instead of trying to time the short term rises with calls. Anyone done something this crazy with a volatile stock like this?
Well you could have done that when the SP was $250 and you would have made out on the calls, but not on the puts.

Next stop $315.
 
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Whether someone manipulating TSLA makes money on the manipulation depends upon several factors. So much of the ability to make money depends upon whether we are in an uptrend or a downtrend and whether that particular manipulation succeeds. Here are examples from the easiest to the more difficult, using today's trading as an example.

View attachment 243191

Capping
This is probably the most profitable manipulation if it is successful. The secret to short-selling profits is to sell high and then buy low. If you are selling right at the daily high, then your purchase at virtually any other point during the day will be profitable. Let's say the stock rises to 342 and you and your fellow shorts start selling however much is necessary to push the stock below 342. In a typical day, the stock price eventually sinks because you have discouraged the longs and you have encouraged shorts. You buy lower in small increments and walk away with a profit

Mandatory Morning Dip (MMD)
Offhand, this type of manipulation looks like it is more difficult to make money with. You start selling like crazy when the stock price shows some weakness or there is any negative news to build upon. In order for the MMD to be profitable on its own and profitable that same day, you need to buy at a price point that is less than the sell-in price when you began the MMD. Fortunately, algos, weak longs, tag-along shorts, and stop-loss triggers will assist you in seeing the losses continue after you start them. Nonetheless, MMDs are quite often not profitable in the same day. What you need is to use an MMD as a part of a bigger strategy to create and continue a downtrend. Let's say you start selling about 10:30am in the 341-340 range. If you can buy back in the 338 range, great, you've made some money. The problem is that the bottom of the dip comes and goes quickly and you might not be able to buy in lower than you sold. No worries, and here's why. You've just taken one for the team and cannot walk away with a profit that day. Lo and behold, though, the Mandatory Morning Dip is successful at preventing a green day and TSLA opens lower the next day. "The team" consists not only of other shorts but also that rather large accumulation of short selling that you've already done. You buy in the next day when the stock has continued its downtrend and not only has the dip transaction been profitable, but your other short shares are now more valuable because of this effort.

Slow Descent into Closing
This manipulation is much like the Mandatory Morning Dip except for two reasons: 1) you get more bang for your buck with the slow descent into close because volume is lower in late afternoon and 2) because the descent is slower, you have more time to buy after others have taken up the work of depressing the stock and cash out profitably for the day. Your job is to get the rock rolling downhill. Once the trend is established, the usual suspects, algos, weak longs, other shorts, stop-loss triggers, etc. can keep the rock rolling downhill for quite some time.

The Importance of Uptrend vs. Downtrend
So much of the reason for manipulations is to start a downtrend or encourage a downtrend to continue. If the stock price is falling and you are waiting a week to buy and close a short position you created during a manipulation, it's easy money. Virtually all short-seller manipulations are profitable during a downtrend if you wait a few days to close the position you opened to manipulate. The other side of the coin is uptrends in the stock price. You may manipulate during an uptrend to help stop that uptrend, but you're most likely going to lose money on the manipulation. You're "taking one for the team" in that you're helping all the other shorts (and your vast quantities of previously-created short positions), but if you can turn that uptrend into a downtrend then your existing short holdings will benefit greatly. Consider, too, if a capping effort fails. If you were capping at 342 today and the stock suddenly ran up to 350, you're taking a loss for the day. Capping is only profitable if you're successful. If you are unsuccessful, you will lose money,at least from the vantage point of that day's trading.

How do I take advantage of these manipulations? I try to buy during a Mandatory Morning Dip when I'm adding shares. That's very often the low of the day. Sometimes I will buy late on a Friday afternoon, expecting the Amateur hour (first hour of market trading) on Monday to boost the stock enough to sell for a weekend gain. It often works, but I lost money (on paper) this past weekend when we had no run-up in the stock price on Monday morning. I don't have time to day trade and don't really try very often to make short-term money.

Where the patterns have made me money is when I realize that patterns have changed. For example, leading up to November of last year the shorts were very successful in pushing the stock price of TSLA down using these three manipulations. Longs had an underlying dread of the coming SCTY merger, and all the pieces were in place for a downtrend to continue. When TSLA reached about 180, though, the manipulations started to fail. We saw capping that couldn't hold, we saw MMDs that didn't dip nearly far enough, and we saw slow descents into closings turn into rallies into close. I upped my leverage at that point and did a pretty good job of calling the bottom. J19 150 calls were selling for as low as $50/share and I backed the truck up and started loading.

Hoping these thoughts are helpful.

Thank you for this very detailed post; I really appreciate it. And congrats on the amazing trade!
 
Pebble power, pebble power
Let the dip reach three-thirty three
pebble power, pebble power
will hit buy limit order for me.

little long, long long,
More TSLA for the pouch,
When TSLA hits two thousand,
I can relax on the couch.

I'm laughing so hard it's not funny,
Some even say I'm crazy.
I always wish dreams do come true,
But my friend,
You've had too much gin rummy.
 
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