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2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

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I'm actually excited about this buying opportunity now. I know my Jan 19 LEAPS will recover. I'm buying stock tomorrow if we start to recover and hit 335 tomorrow. If it goes down further, I will wait until a bounce and then buy A LOT! As others have said, most analysts I have seen were expecting Model 3 production to NOT start in July, and for 2018 deliveries to be under 50,000. Now we know production has started, and they are expecting 5,000/week by December. So the big risk is no longer there. Add a 15% discount to the stock price, and this is a no brainer to me. (Not advice...).
Agree.
Big thanks to forum users and others who stopped me investing $30k on 5th of July, now I'll get more stock once it stops crashing!
 
Looking back at the July 3rd report:

"The major factor affecting Tesla’s Q2 deliveries was a severe production shortfall of 100 kWh battery packs, which are made using new technologies on new production lines. The technology challenge grows exponentially with energy density. Until early June, production averaged about 40% below demand. Once this was resolved, June orders and deliveries were strong, ranking as one of the best in Tesla history."

If production averaged about 40% below demand until early June, then where did the remaining batteries go if not to the cars?

Well, there's battery storage. I think that the batteries produced were shifted toward Powerpack systems (i.e. Utility scale production for Australia etc), and I am expecting news soon. It's getting close to 100 days (not sure when the start day was...), yeah?
 
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This has been one of those days where I cant remember what I wrote, vs what I thought about writing. This is my thought on the last couple of weeks:

1) This all started a couple of weeks ago when someone came out and said Techs had to high of valuations. This started a rotation out of tech that seemed to pull Tesla along with the Nasdaq only because Tesla was up 5x the Nasdaq, it was going down 3x as much.
2) Sold the news. It appears when the model 3 came out ahead of schedule, many sold the news.
3) Tesla announced delivering just over 22k cars for just over 47k cars for 1H 2018 which was inline with the lower end of guidance. Mind you that Bears didnt believed they would hit within 10000 cars of the low end, and frankly they where over 10,000 below the top line of guidance for the whole year in 2016. To me, hitting 47,100ish cars was about what I expected, because I trust Tesla to hit their numbers now.
4) GS seemed to jump on this to say that demand was for S/X was down. Even though Tesla qualified the lower deliveries to issues with a new system for packing cells. This reminds me of something Elon said I believe at the Barrons event. When he said that cost savings came from the Cells, but also from the pack. The 100KWh packs are different then their predecessors, Someone, I think @wk001 tore down a P100D pack and noticed that the cooling was much different allowing for a tighter packed package which allowed for 100KWh. My point is that resolving an issue to automate the packaging for 100KWh packs should have been seen by knowledgeable people as being friggin awesome, they instead interpreted this as a drop in demand. On what planet is successfully overcoming some initial issues and automating the most expensive part of the most expensive model mean that demand has gone down? Its beyond simplistic thinking. This is also after a Q2-2017 over Q2-2016 gain of 53% in deliveries, even with issues. Need I even mention that this extremely high margin 100KWh pack did not exist in Q2-2016? Or that it enables the longest range EV on the planet by like a lot. Did I mention its high margin?

Demand is not down, this is fiction and based on absolutely 0 facts. Does Tesla want to sell some model 3 reservation holders an S? Absolutely. Will they, Absolutely. Just like future model 3 owners will want an S/X as their next car. Is model X suffering from a demand issue? Man, they just finally caught up with the original reservations backlog and someone thinks there is a demand issue, on what planet? Elon literally was shaking his head in disbelief when he stated model 3 reservations keep coming in, ever week there are more. I just read an article on Slurping Alphalfa about model 3 reservations dropping like a rock. Certainly proved his point with some very doubious math and logic, but he was a green person who wants to see the EV succeed while shorting TSLA. They literally moved up the release and volume production of the Model 3 and GF1 by as much as 18 months. You know the thing that was beyond impossible that is actually happening in 23 days? And this makes you want to sell the news?

In short, Tesla is and will be Supply constrained for the next 2-5 years. The high end of the range because it will depend on the Y and how quickly they can ramp. The fact is that they might never catch up to demand, which is why I think the price for a Tesla will always be high, just like an Iphone. But profits will also be high. Let someone else lose money making EVs, Tesla needs capital for expansion. I expect Tesla to improve the offerings but not lower the prices, more value for the dollar but not less dollars. You see it today with faster 0-60 from better inverter/motors. Never forget that the Model 3 is not 2 weeks ahead of schedule, its 18 months and 2 weeks ahead of schedule. Yes Elon talks a lot of crap, but he also delivers the impossible about every 6 months, so cut him some slack.

Anyway.. GLTA, long and strong! Embrace the FUD, it is your friend!
 
Uh, I don't think that is the right perspective. Every analyst model I have seen showed negligible to zero M3 in 2017 at all. They are still all officially saying the Tesla is always late so don't expect any M3's this year. THIS BOARD said otherwise, but we are not the opinion of record. It is fair to say that the common, average expectation of markets and analysts was very low volumes, and not in July at all. So for Elon to say that yes, some in July and substantial volumes in 2017, this is confirming the bull case. Only a few enthusiasts were saying large volumes this year.
I don't think it's fair to say that average expectations of market was very low volumes. I think market put rose colored glasses as the year progressed, and no reports of delays. I feel like it was just yesterday when I sold my 40% of over-leverage at $314. And just yesterday as I bought some TSLA for my kids in another account at $323.

Last $70 were fast and furious, and I think that was market convincing itself M3 will start in July. I know analysts didn't update their models, but they typically do that after the earnings call, so any developing optimism wouldn't find a way into published models yet.
 
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I appreciate the optimism. All I am saying is that Elon said it is possible to exit the year at that rate, and being 2 weeks early on 1 or 30 vehicles is good, but not write home to mom good. He made no promise, and as Elon and others have said time and again, building cars is HARD.
Agreed, let me put forth an example: spacex using first principles to improve the rocket engine, and return to reuse cycle. So now, first principles are being applied to car manufacturing, yes it is hard as is rocket science. The product is not the car (M3) it is the machine that makes the machine. So when news comes that humans have been removed from the line, then it will be too late to get on board TSLA as it will have all ready left the station..
 
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Forget the stock price. I am more concerned about TT007's well being at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised this fall was caused by TT007 existing the TSLA ;)

But seriously, he still sits on massive gains, and if I'm understanding his style well, he will dump at some point on the way down(if he didn't already, should it continue) and reenter once he's certain falling knife phase is done
 
Yuck. My personal worst day ever. Oh well, its just numbers on a computer screen. They will be green soon enough.

Yikes I'm sorry man. I know you've been around TSLA long enough to remember days like this, and long enough to remember that they don't last forever, either. Successful trading is a long game of periodic wins and losses, and no one wins every time. Not even the greatest traders in history.

But a brutal day for sure for long option and trading share positions, and I suspect a lot of new guys around here are finding out what tripping through all their stop loss orders and even margin calls are like today. Really hoping we don't have some people going into catastrophic debt today, but I suspect we do.

I really like Ben Carlson's musings, and I found this post particularly heartening today:
Every Time Stocks Fall…

I still believe that Tesla (Motors) Inc. will continue to rise and rise and rise as a company. The share price may or may not follow in any given time period, but in the ultra-long term I have nothing but confidence the share price will reflect the company's continuing success.
 
For those seeing red, review July 2015, and 14. Last summer 2016 was skewed by the SolarCity/Tesla merg.

Then toss in articles like this one Why gas-powered cars aren't going away (SOS)
and remember Fossil Fuels will not give an inch. Rational thinkers come to their own conclusions in their own time. Me, I came to my own rational conclusion years ago. I do not routinely have money just laying around to gamble with, so I am not a day trader.

Volvo lost me after three new cars with maintenance on the last one costing $2K every other year. There comes a time to release your old baggage, now is the time to let go of your ICE vehicle. Most of us here could easily buy the MS, MX or M3; but refuse to jump out of a perfectly good airplane (ICE):) If my wife can do a zipline in Costa Rica; you can go all electric ~ she did a fantastic job at 66 ~ last summer during the merg!

I waited until the price hit $65 a share because I thought it would level off (traded shell for Tesla one for one). Bought some more at $150 a share because I knew it would continue to grow. Nothing has rationally convinced my limited critical thinking skill to believe this company is going anywhere but up ~ thank you very much:)

I did not say this stock was for the lighthearted by any stretch of the imagination ~ you just need one (imagination):)

I am a long horn bull:)
 
I guess there could be a flash crash type scenario down to 250... but to my eye 280-290 seems a more likely lower bound to the new range as that was the long term all-time high SP for many years and should act as more support than 240 which has been traversed many times.
Looking at the chart I understand why you say that.

I simply don't think a pessimistic market will let Tesla stay at a previous ATH if it's intent on a big downswing. I "feel" that it will overshoot. I'll start buying tranches at 300 or more likely drop stop losses at 300 if it falls below.

If it never gets that low then obviously I'm okay with that.
 
Here is what is going on (as I understand it).
  1. There are a set of people who work to keep their money on a rapidly appreciating stock (it is a lot of money).
  2. The Model 3 roll out plans did not signal rapid appreciation in the near future.
  3. People moved that money out.
This effects the stock price.
 
I think Tesla could fall to 270-280, but not lower. Too much happened since the beginning of december rally, to go back to 2014-2016 levels, and we're too close of massive fundamentals change for the company.

I'm not saying it won't go below, but it's highly unlikely, and if it does it will be very short term, like in February.
 
Stock price was around 380 back then. So much for shooting fish in a barrel…
What's your point? Professional idiot?

In case you don't understand options the J19 options expire in January 2019. Most of our j19's are still green. Those are not, but I believe that gaining more leverage will pay off big in the long term.

Sometimes the SP Is moved by actual news. The recent SP moves are clearly due to "alternative news".
 
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Bad day indeed. Let's hope for a better tomorrow :(

Last year, when we had such big move downwards, there were valid fundamental reasons. SolarCity acquisition announcement was a nasty surprise and Model X concerns were real and material. And to top it all off, presidential election and unexpected outcomes!

Now, we have none of those concerns, and stock moves down so much so violently? Why? :confused:
 
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Looking at the chart I understand why you say that.

I simply don't think a pessimistic market will let Tesla stay at a previous ATH if it's intent on a big downswing. I "feel" that it will overshoot. I'll start buying tranches at 300 or more likely drop stop losses at 300 if it falls below.

If it never gets that low then obviously I'm okay with that.
Same here.
I found today wonderful, liberating day; being unleveraged I didn't care about TSLA SP drop. I'm personally 100% TSLA - through '19 leaps strike $100 and $100/$327=30.5% in cash
At around $300, I may be adding about 10% leverage (again through '19 leaps strike $100), and around $250 another 10% leverage.
If we never get there, doesn't matter, I'm comfortable with the stake I have. If we get to $180 (which I don't expect), I'm throwing everything in, and borrowing half a mil from home equity credit line to put in.
 
Same here.
I found today wonderful, liberating day; being unleveraged I didn't care about TSLA SP drop. I'm personally 100% TSLA - through '19 leaps strike $100 and $100/$327=30.5% in cash
At around $300, I may be adding about 10% leverage (again through '19 leaps strike $100), and around $250 another 10% leverage.
If we never get there, doesn't matter, I'm comfortable with the stake I have. If we get to $180 (which I don't expect), I'm throwing everything in, and borrowing half a mil from home equity credit line to put in.
Glad to hear you delevered in time, today would be painful with it.

I never openly root for price crashes because I know it's financially painful for many people here, but to buy and holders like myself it's sure a great buying opportunity when the falling stops.

I had been worried about done posts talking about leveraging more and buying more when we stalled out around 365. The positivity of this place can be infectious and I always need to remind myself that the market is more pessimistic and prone to overreaction than we are. Today is a great example - when a note from the actually almost lowest ranked analysts in the business (like, literally bottom few single digit percentile) can lead a 7% sell off.
 
Uh, I don't think that is the right perspective. Every analyst model I have seen showed negligible to zero M3 in 2017 at all. They are still all officially saying the Tesla is always late so don't expect any M3's this year. THIS BOARD said otherwise, but we are not the opinion of record. It is fair to say that the common, average expectation of markets and analysts was very low volumes, and not in July at all. So for Elon to say that yes, some in July and substantial volumes in 2017, this is confirming the bull case. Only a few enthusiasts were saying large volumes this year.
Yes all the analysts guided almost 0 M3, but they also guided PPS target way way under $300, some below $200. The recent price up at $370 suggests that the market was not expecting the same as those analysts, but much more, probably close to what we expected on this forum, which some had as high as thousands in July, and $70-100K in 2017.

I think if you take the 2 extremes:
  • 0 M3 delivery, MS/MX stagnate, $150-$180 PPS
  • 1000s of M3 in July (such as the M3 owners club rumor), $400-500 PPS
we're now in the middle of that range of expectations. Just doing a simple avg of the PPS of the 2 cases, I get a $275-340 range. I think today's price action is fully justified, and don't expect much to change until some significant news, such as July delivery surprise (surprise! we built a lot more than 30), or Q2ER surprise (we delivered so many P100D's in June our margin is through the roof), or SA TE project news that is way bigger than originally expected.
 
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