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The final cut of TMC Podcast #34 is available now with topics timestamped. We covered Tesla's rollercoaster prices, Toyota pushing junk science, Mike's new Model 3, Optimizing track mode for snow driving, FSD V11 apparently coming by the end of this week, and more. You can watch and check out the chat replay on YouTube.
2018 M3 Battery life got reduced!
- Thread starter abwmma
- Start date
Electric700
Active Member
You may want to try charging to 100%, let the charge complete, then drive it immediately afterward. Then you can report back what your 90% rated miles value is.
If it's unchanged, you might have just over a 1% range loss, which is not significant. I have seen here that battery degradation is highest in years 1-2 and is supposed to level off afterward to a minimum. Hopefully you'll be in good shape!
If it's unchanged, you might have just over a 1% range loss, which is not significant. I have seen here that battery degradation is highest in years 1-2 and is supposed to level off afterward to a minimum. Hopefully you'll be in good shape!
Mine only charges to 272 at 90% , always got 279-281and today readying for a trip, HPWC charged at 48A, 300 at 100%. The 3 is a 2018 LR-AWD November build, 14K miles, only a handful of SC use, mostly home charged when down to 30% back up to 90%.
Why shouldn't we each expect the full 310 and more at 100%, Charging Complete? It's a new car!!!!!
Why shouldn't we each expect the full 310 and more at 100%, Charging Complete? It's a new car!!!!!
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Battery degradation, especially in the first year, is relatively normal (unfortunately). At 3%, it's not much to worry about. It isn't unusual for an initial drop to occur followed by slower changes from there.
Another thing to consider: there's a fair amount of evidence that these changes are due to software updates, sometimes. Sometimes they are real, of course. If you have a tracking program and you note when your estimated range changes, you'll find it is correlated in many cases. If it's correlated with the software update, it may well be "real" in the sense that you do have less energy available, but it could also be a change in the estimation algorithm. In neither case would anything fundamental about your battery have changed.
It's anybody's guess how the Model 3 battery will fare long-term. There have been a few outright battery failures, but we don't have a lot of data on how people's batteries are doing on average. There are people out there with 10s of thousands of miles with close to 100% of original capacity. There are others who are not so lucky.
It's really only an issue if you plan to push the very limits of your range. It's totally understandable that it is bothersome, but you have to assess whether it matters at all. Obviously if it continued at that rate it would matter a lot...but it's unlikely to do so, and it's likely that at that rate you'd qualify for a battery replacement prior to the warranty expiration.
In cases reported so far, it does seem common that if you see a quick and significant drop (say 10% of range or more), it's usually not too long before the car complains, starts failing to charge, and then you have to take it to Tesla for a battery replacement.
Personally, for the OP, I would not recommend the charging to 100% unless you're planning to go on a trip and you can quickly empty it. It just isn't worth it to fiddle around, especially if the issue was clearly correlated with a software update. I've only seen one report recently where this actually worked, and one report does not a pattern make. Especially when you look at the number of cases where it hasn't worked.... I'm not saying it can't help - the BMS definitely likes to see a deep discharge followed by a charge to a pretty high charge state (say 90-95%) to "recalibrate" - but it often makes no difference, and won't, if the BMS estimation is not the issue.
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the 10 miles is the equivalent of less than a 1 MPG difference in an ICE car. Did you complain when you got 1 MPG less in your cass car? Most ICE cars have gas tanks that are > 10 gallons so... 1 MPG less for 10 gallons = 10MPG. Probably closer to 12-15 and most people probably got 1-2 MPG less than advertised so somewhere between 12-30 MPG for your average gas car.
Also, why exactly are you waiting until its "down to 30% to charge it back up"? Tesla specifically tells you not to do that in the manual (well they specifically say there is NO BENEFIT to doing that". Try charging it every time you get to your garage for a week and see if it self corrects.
Also, try thinking about whether or not you obsessed about less than 1 MPG loss on your last car.
@ngogas i saw a 9 mile drop after upgrading to 2019.32.2.2. What’s the other thread that you mentioned?
No obsession or benefit seeking going on. Just adding a data point, nothing more. Like you, we don't care about 1-2 mpg. To be honest, we usually end up covering more miles on a charge than stated starting range. The tank in my diesel is always 21 gallons. I can still get close to 630 miles with every fill driving 70 on the highway....184k miles on the odometer. My point should have been that if the trim I chose has a range of 310 miles, I should expect a full charge of 310 to start.... how I drive will determine the actual range. I use the charge limit % based setting/limit with an expectation that 100% of 310 is 310.
About rundown, we charge it at 30% because that's how much we sometimes drive in a day. My wife and I share the car and have alternating schedules. The diesel stays parked. Other times the 3 is charging from 60-90%. As stated, we don't run the car down to 5% or overuse SC.
My car shipped with 325 mile range firmware, OTA update dropped it back to 310, and then a later update put it back to 325, it just took a long time for it to recover.
Charging habit was 80% daily for a bit, later I changed it to 65% on weekdays and 90% on weekend trips. I figure no sense in charging to 90% SoC if the vehicle isn't going to use it, as there is still a ~5x increase on cell stress vs 50% SoC. And charging to 90% on a weekend trip allows the computer to balance and calculate correct values without it getting skewed over time. Seems to work so far.
Most of the car's degradation will occur in the first 20-30k miles, so anyone getting worried about a 5% loss should know that is expected. Also trying to fix range skew with deep discharges + 100% charging is one of the most stressful things for the battery. In doing so, you are working against the health of the battery. You should instead worry about your long term charging habits to keep it in check, and don't do things unnecessarily just to change the computer readout.
Charging habit was 80% daily for a bit, later I changed it to 65% on weekdays and 90% on weekend trips. I figure no sense in charging to 90% SoC if the vehicle isn't going to use it, as there is still a ~5x increase on cell stress vs 50% SoC. And charging to 90% on a weekend trip allows the computer to balance and calculate correct values without it getting skewed over time. Seems to work so far.
Most of the car's degradation will occur in the first 20-30k miles, so anyone getting worried about a 5% loss should know that is expected. Also trying to fix range skew with deep discharges + 100% charging is one of the most stressful things for the battery. In doing so, you are working against the health of the battery. You should instead worry about your long term charging habits to keep it in check, and don't do things unnecessarily just to change the computer readout.
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We're good, it's a forum
At her final destination for next few days, my wife forgot to reset the limit to 90% before charging overnight to full. She has access to a hotel HPWC for the next few days. Checking through the API, charge state shows battery is at 98%, ideal battery range is 296, estimated battery range is 264. When back home, we'll set the limit to 90%.and track the charge state over the next few cycles.
charge_state:
{"response":{"battery_heater_on":false,"battery_level":98,"battery_range":296.86,"charge_current_request":6,"charge_current_request_max":6,"charge_enable_request":true,"charge_energy_added":32.12,"charge_limit_soc":100,"charge_limit_soc_max":100,"charge_limit_soc_min":50,"charge_limit_soc_std":90,"charge_miles_added_ideal":131.0,"charge_miles_added_rated":131.0,"charge_port_cold_weather_mode":false,"charge_port_door_open":true,"charge_port_latch":"Engaged","charge_rate":0.0,"charge_to_max_range":true,"charger_actual_current":0,"charger_phases":null,"charger_pilot_current":6,"charger_power":0,"charger_voltage":2,"charging_state":"Complete","conn_charge_cable":"SAE","est_battery_range":264.57,"fast_charger_brand":"<invalid>","fast_charger_present":false,"fast_charger_type":"ACSingleWireCAN","ideal_battery_range":296.86,"managed_charging_active":false,"managed_charging_start_time":null,"managed_charging_user_canceled":false,"max_range_charge_counter":2,"minutes_to_full_charge":0,"not_enough_power_to_heat":null,"scheduled_charging_pending":false,"scheduled_charging_start_time":null,"time_to_full_charge":0.0,"timestamp":1569066415489,"trip_charging":false,"usable_battery_level":98,"user_charge_enable_request":null}}
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