2019.40.50.7 installing now

[Kennymb5384]

So what I am hearing is you are okay with bad updates as long as you can choose which bad update you are on? I am on 50.5 still so I am not sure what the angle is here. I have not been on 50.6/7 yet.

I still think the advanced update argument is irrelevant for what I am talking about. I am talking about poor releases in general. It doesn’t matter if I decide to stand my ground and say no thank you to your future updates...the fact is I am currently on a badly rushed update right now. The whole idea behind these patches is to fix bugs/stability, and that is clearly not happening. I completely understand if it was for core releases, but what are supposed to do when bug fixes make it worse?

the fact that they can push an update and the Tesla community can find issues immediately shows there is a huge lack in QA testing.

 

[Kennymb5384]

The release cadence of late, has been surprising, though also nice to see - especially for the Advanced updates chain. As this is the entire intent of selecting Advanced. Choosing Advanced and then being upset by the pace of releases on it, seems irrational to me.

That said, I would be curious to see what releases made it out to the Standard deployment group over the last say 60 days and what version they are on now.

I am in no way upset with the pace of release. I am upset with the quality of release. Three patch release within a week or so that has not fixed most of the issues and caused others is where the concern is.

I am on advanced and still on 50.5

 

[linux-works]

the fact that they can push an update and the Tesla community can find issues immediately shows there is a huge lack in QA testing.

its quite labor intensive to do full system regression tests and be able to cover the spectrum of use-cases and road conditions (and hardware variations in the field!).

they could use more people. they need to sell more cars and hire more people. (its turtles all the way down...)

every car maker is like this, though, from what I can tell. they all need more staff and they 'cant' (for various reasons of 'cant')

 

[bdub85]

There will always be bugs in any software regardless of how well it's tested. It's the nature of the beast. As long as humans are writing code, there will be bugs.

 

[Kennymb5384]

its quite labor intensive to do full system regression tests and be able to cover the spectrum of use-cases and road conditions (and hardware variations in the field!).

they could use more people. they need to sell more cars and hire more people. (its turtles all the way down...)

every car maker is like this, though, from what I can tell. they all need more staff and they 'cant' (for various reasons of 'cant')

I work for a SASS company, so I definitely get how some things can go missed. But how many patches does it take before you fix an issue? I think there is more concern around the idea that this is my car and the safety side. When you hear that someone’s car just shutdown while driving after the latest patch, it gets worrisome. May be a one off, but If they can spend the time releasing multiple fixes in a span of a week, they can take the time to regression test and spend more time on one solid release. Just my opinion

 

[linux-works]

I missed the 'shutdown' issue; do you have a link to it?

we don't get release notes or errata on each new update, so we don't know (and actually can't make an informed decision).

if they say too much, that can backfire even though they mean well in terms of transparency.

if they say too little, they are not transparent enough.

open source has an easy audit model. no car that will be sold is open source (in fact, many companies are going away from linux and going fully closed source like qnx and AUTOSAR os's. in a way, that's a Good Thing(tm)).

 

[Kennymb5384]

I read about the shutdown issue in this forum, I believe on one of the release threads. Would have to go back and find it.

yeah, these are the releases I am talking about. No new release notes (bug fixes). I wouldn’t expect new notes for everything outside of maybe just saying bug fixes/improvements. Similar to how most iOS apps do it. That makes sense. I guess I just disagree with the idea that it’s okay to spend more time releasing quick fixes, then taking a little more time to ensure the release is actually fixing issues. Don’t get me wrong, I live my car and love having OTA updates, just getting concerned with how the releases have been coming in the past month. Maybe I am just newer to the club and this is normal.

 

[mswlogo]

I work for a SASS company, so I definitely get how some things can go missed. But how many patches does it take before you fix an issue? I think there is more concern around the idea that this is my car and the safety side. When you hear that someone’s car just shutdown while driving after the latest patch, it gets worrisome. May be a one off, but If they can spend the time releasing multiple fixes in a span of a week, they can take the time to regression test and spend more time on one solid release. Just my opinion

The the exact same folks will bitch that they don't get enough updates.

I highly doubt the shutdown had anything to do with the last update, but folks will blame everything for the next week that happens after they were "updated".

Nobody has any idea what 50.7 fixed over 50.1 so how can folks speculate how bad 50.1 was?

I'm quite happy with 50.1 and have not driven with 50.7 yet.

If you are looking for bug free software sell all your electronics and move to a deserted island.

 

[linux-works]

an effective rollback model sure would be nice. that way we can try and back-out if it sucks. extra points for multi-level of back-out.

its not asking a lot for that feature. but if it was not designed in from the start, yes, it IS asking a lot. (I don't expect rollback. probably not ever, to be honest, but I can still wish for it..)

 

[Kennymb5384]

The the exact same folks will bitch that they don't get enough updates.

I highly doubt the shutdown had anything to do with the last update, but folks will blame everything for the next week that happens after they were "updated".

Nobody has any idea what 50.7 fixed over 50.1 so how can folks speculate how bad 50.1 was?

I'm quite happy with 50.1 and have not driven with 50.7 yet.

If you are looking for bug free software sell all your electronics and move to a deserted island.

Still doesn’t seem like you are getting my point. I totally understand that software will have bugs, and no software will be free from bugs, but if you are releasing patches that are meant to fix said bugs, do you not expect it to do just that? If bugs with for example voice commands were reportedly not working in 50.1 and you release 50.5/6/7 and they are not getting better, or worse according to some, is that really not a reason to be worried. I totally understand you cannot make everyone happy, but isn’t this forum a place to express that? Which ever side you are on...

 

[MrBadger]

That’s why they have the toggle for “advanced” on software updates.

Our car took an early (in UK) 2019.40.50.5 even on standard - previously 40.50.1. So that setting didn't do a thing for that release.
However, no sign of 40.50.7 yet.

Unfortunately, once the car takes the download, it is forever nagging you to install.

 

[Kennymb5384]

an effective rollback model sure would be nice. that way we can try and back-out if it sucks. extra points for multi-level of back-out.

its not asking a lot for that feature. but if it was not designed in from the start, yes, it IS asking a lot. (I don't expect rollback. probably not ever, to be honest, but I can still wish for it..)

I agree 100%. A roll back model would be great. You are right when you say it will probably never happen, since the issues we complain about are more then likely smaller issues in the grand scheme of things. I bet they have a roll back Model for P1 types of issues that they know could be dangerous, but more than likely nothing for voice commands haha

 

[mswlogo]

Still doesn’t seem like you are getting my point. I totally understand that software will have bugs, and no software will be free from bugs, but if you are releasing patches that are meant to fix said bugs, do you not expect it to do just that? If bugs with for example voice commands were reportedly not working in 50.1 and you release 50.5/6/7 and they are not getting better, or worse according to some, is that really not a reason to be worried. I totally understand you cannot make everyone happy, but isn’t this forum a place to express that? Which ever side you are on...

You are assuming 5/6/7 was to fix voice commands. Those releases might have had absolutely nothing to do with it and my hunch is it didn't.

Lot of folks making huge assumptions.

 

[linux-works]

any show-stopper would be rolled-back at the image build level (software build). some jenkins job would get triggered when they revert a huge change-request and we get a new 'update', even though it could be a 'revert'.

on our cars, having more than 1 image to pick from and being able to boot from at least 2, that would be so nice. again, i'm not holding my breath. on a new car and new model, maybe; but that is still a huge system-level architecture change and most car vendors would not see the benefit in it. car makers are still not really 'software houses' yet even though they kind of NEED to be.

 

[Kennymb5384]

I’m just using voice commands as an example. You are right, I have no idea what they were meant to fix, but voice commands were part of the major release and have been publicly ridiculed ever since. Maybe just wishful thinking.

maybe they need to put out brief release notes for bug fixes. Probably won’t ever happen as that can be a slippery slope.

 

[pilotSteve]

There will always be bugs in any software regardless of how well it's tested. It's the nature of the beast. As long as humans are writing code, there will be bugs.

... yes and when software is writing code, (vs humans) it will be bugs writing new bugs.

 

[Kennymb5384]

Definitely appreciate the healthy conversation though! I have seen some people on here that just like to bring people down, so it’s refreshing to hear the difference in point of views without bringing someone down, or trying to make them feel stupid!

 

[mswlogo]

I’m just using voice commands as an example. You are right, I have no idea what they were meant to fix, but voice commands were part of the major release and have been publicly ridiculed ever since. Maybe just wishful thinking.

Maybe they need to put out brief release notes for bug fixes. Probably won’t ever happen as that can be a slippery slope.

Voice command has worked great for me, even on 50.1, could be server load issues that they didn't foresee, could be regional, hard to say.

Could be 5/6/7 was instrumentation to help sort out a load balancing issue.

Tons of releases have been followed up with a patch and tons of features have been bumpy at launch. Nothing new here.

 

[linux-works]

... yes and when software is writing code, (vs humans) it will be bugs writing new bugs.

ACTUALLY, that's not at all true. the new hotness is to create model-based designs, then feed that into a 'code generator' and that makes provably safe and secure runtime code. its been this way for a while (not on linux, though) and it moves the 'logic' up a level.

google 'autosar' for what I'm talking about. or add 'autosar asil d' for your search.

one search result: AUTOSAR | Vector (although I hate to send people to Vector; their stuff is so expensive and they have such an attitude, as a company. but they are the #1 in that field, fwiw)

 

[Kennymb5384]

Voice command has worked great for me, even on 50.1, could be server load issues that they didn't foresee, could be regional, hard to say.

Could be 5/6/7 was instrumentation to help sort out a load balancing issue.

Tons of releases have been followed up with a patch and tons of features have been bumpy at launch. Nothing new here.

yeah, I was only talking about the high frequency in the latest patches. Maybe I am just new to the club, and not used to seeing 4 versions/patches released within a month. When they initially released the new voice commands it never worked for me, not even once. As the patches were released, it slowly got better and was working about 60% of the time. Then the latest patch that I am on (50.5) came out and now it only works some times with the steering wheel button. Doesn’t work at all if I click on the microphone button on the screen. This is the only reason I used voice commands as an example.