300-plus kW inverter for M3 -- implies MS equivalent performance

[zenmaster]

I wonder what the survey would look like if the "performance' of sports cars was cheaper...ie M3.

The M3 is going to throw surveys into a bucket of nonsensical wastes of time....just like the M6 has.

I think anything can be made cheaper with sufficient volume. But who wants sports car performance? Not too many people. The EV crowd are apparently satisfied with "Ludicrous mode" for now. The sports car crowd specifically want overall performance and a particular kind of feel from the car. Will cost a lot more to develop an EV with competitive attributes to most sports cars. It will happen, but not for another 5-10 years when battery weight is reduced significantly and thermal mgmt tech is able to properly cool the pack.

 

[FlatSix911]

I have long railed against the notion that Porsche builds 'sports cars', because to me, that bookshelf behind the front seats, apparently designed for toddlers or double amputees, disqualifies the 911. To me, a sports car only has two seats. Also, the notion that Porsche cars are 'lightweight' is rather unfair, as they have been getting heavier and heavier over the past 25 years. The race-prepped version of their cars are lightweight, but not the street cars. That is, a lightweight car should be under 2,800 lbs or so, in my opinion. But this is likely just my personal angst, due to the fact I've always hated how automobile magazines have claimed the Chevrolet Corvette was 'too heavy', even when its curb weight was the same, or less than, a Porsche in a comparison test. Or how a Mercedes-Benz SL is lauded for its handling solidity that inspires confidence when it is a two seater that outweighs a Corvette by 700 lbs... The inherent journalistic bias in favor of German brands is a real pain.

Red, I agree that Porsche and many German AG automakers have lost their way with modern sports cars.
Long gone are the days of cheap, light and agile cars. I still have my 25 year old air cooled cars for fun...

The good news is with the advent of VW diesel-gate, many German automakers are now getting serious about EVs.
The next 5 years will be a very interesting, transformative time in auto history as they catch up on new EV technology.

 

[Red Sage]

I think anything can be made cheaper with sufficient volume. But who wants sports car performance? Not too many people. The EV crowd are apparently satisfied with "Ludicrous mode" for now. The sports car crowd specifically want overall performance and a particular kind of feel from the car. Will cost a lot more to develop an EV with competitive attributes to most sports cars. It will happen, but not for another 5-10 years when battery weight is reduced significantly and thermal mgmt tech is able to properly cool the pack.

I disagree. I think that just about everyone wants to have a sports car. That is, everyone who actually enjoys driving anyway. Those people who only believe that vehicles are necessary appliances to go from one place to another need not apply.

The practicality of life is what prevents people from buying sports cars. The financial concern when one can only afford to own one car at a time... So that car has to be all things for all the purposes they expect to encounter during the ownership process... The fiscal need to own something that doesn't eat gasoline like no tomorrow means that someone who has become used to the mileage of a Civic or Corolla would be appalled by even the fuel economy of a 3-Series, let alone a Corvette or Camaro. Some people need to haul people, and stuff, rather often... So they cannot justify a two-seater convertible with a shoebox for a trunk.

That said, I doubt seriously that there are people that grew up with a poster of a silver/grey Dodge Caravan or Toyota Sienna on their bedroom wall. More likely they looked forward to 'some day' driving something with flowing lines and fenders and a particular emblem... Lamborghini, Porsche, or Ferrari proudly displayed on its flaming red or bright yellow hindquarters.

When gasoline was cheap and plentiful, and a Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, or Challenger could be acquired for $3,000 to $5,000 each, those sold like gangbusters. If it were possible to have the functional equivalent of those vehicles for an effective $25,000 or less, without any of the downsides they offer, they would be incredibly popular today. The Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, and Toyota Corolla may not offer road burning performance, but they certainly set the standard for baseline minimum that consumers are willing to accept for the price. Which is interesting, because their current prices are right in line with what a Camaro, Firebird, or Mustang would have cost 25 years ago.

People want sports cars. They have simply been conditioned to believe they shouldn't or couldn't have one. Electric cars can turn the tables and set a new standard as a baseline minimum. It would be unwise to not take that advantage while it presents itself.

 

[FlatSix911]

Interesting reading as we are discussing EV sports cars ...
Porsche is ramping up effort to build the all-electric Mission E, will create more than 1,400 jobs [Gallery]

Volkswagen is moving forward with its plan to significantly increase the number of electric vehicles across its brands. Most established automakers seem to focus on plug-in hybrids in order to electrify their lineups, but Volkswagen is committing to all-electric vehicles, which is refreshing, and plans to introduce more than 30 new models and to produce “2 to 3 million all-electric cars a year by 2025” across all of its brands.

One of the first vehicles confirmed under this plan is Porsche’s Mission E, an all-electric luxury sedan. The automaker confirmed on Tuesday it is ramping up its effort to bring the vehicle to market and now plans to create 40% more jobs for the program than anticipated.

 

[bhzmark]

I really fail for see how you can compare Porsche sports cars with Tesla sedans.

Yeah, the Porsches just don’t have a chance.

Tesla Model 3 beats runner-up Porsche Boxster to win Time Attack race event — Teslarati

 

[ℬête Noire]

THE ZOMBIES ARISE!!!!!



P.S. Raising 2 year old threads from the grave aside, it's kinda funny looking back on that. Tesla gets it's chops busted for "delivering late" yet here we are with 10's of thousands of Model 3s on the road and Porsche still at least a year out from first delivery. Anyone that doesn't understand that Tesla moves quick for automotive industry just doesn't understand the automotive industry.

 

[ThosEM]

Well, VW did just take a record on the Pike's Peak hill climb, in an EV that looks rather Porsche-like. Think those suicide doors will ever see the light of day? Unlikely...