371 Wh/km (600 Wh/Mile) consumption in the deep freeze

[ThePirate]

While this video showed impressive charging speed, it's not always possible to replicate for some Tesla drivers, like the ones in Chicago, I'll explain:

1. Video guy drove 78km on highways and could pre-condition the entire way, using 11% battery capacity just for preconditioning
2. He's driving an AWD model which could generate more waste heat for more effective pre-conditioning
3. His car had plenty of time to precondition, well over half an hour, also had enough battery life left for the car to go full bore on generate waste heat
4. His car doesn't have a LFP pack which is both heavier and less energy dense with chemistry that's less reactive in colder temperatures

For someone driving for ride share in Chicago using a new LFP RWD Model 3, for example, even assuming that the superchargers work perfectly (which some of them definitely didn't for various reasons), all 4 of those points would work against them. They would have less time to precondition, less waste heat generated, more battery mass to heat up, and without home charging, they'd be starting off at a lower battery %, which makes the car less willing to waste energy to precondition.

While it is obvious that an EV, especially a Tesla definitely can work and charge fine in extreme cold weather, there are use cases that EVs are not good for. Usable, but much less than ideal. Ride share in a LFP RWD is definitely not a use case I would recommend.

ps. Notice how the video car used 25kwh for 78km. Imagine a RWD or a SR+ with 50-55kwh usable energy, and add in another 10-15% buffer so you don't run the pack dry... the usable range in -35c is absymal, and with less effective precondition than shown, even with superchargers that work and doesn't have lines, you're looking at driving maybe 150km, then having to charge for 40 minutes (if not more). Not ideal.

OK, then isn't the conclusion here that in cold climates, ride share companies, and especially the rental agencies!, should tell the rental drivers to get an LR AWD only?

Isn't it really the fault of the rental agencies for selling the drivers on a cheap solution they shouldn't offer in winter?

I'm surprised it makes such a huge difference, but apparently that's really the answer, that newbs pushing their rented standard range LFP RWDs too far are the majority of the cause of the "Great Chicago Winter 24 Tesla Mass Fail". That along with a few more dead chargers than usual.

-TPC

 

[Braumin]

OK, then isn't the conclusion here that in cold climates, ride share companies, and especially the rental agencies!, should tell the rental drivers to get an LR AWD only?

Isn't it really the fault of the rental agencies for selling the drivers on a cheap solution they shouldn't offer in winter?

I'm surprised it makes such a huge difference, but apparently that's really the answer, that newbs pushing their rented standard range LFP RWDs too far are the majority of the cause of the "Great Chicago Winter 24 Tesla Mass Fail". That along with a few more dead chargers than usual.

-TPC

Probably not enough information to make this kind of assessment. We can all agree that a dual motor can generate more heat, but that doesn't mean a LFP RWD is useless in the cold. Would really need some scan my tesla data to see what kind of cell temps it is able to get to. There's one less motor but there's still a heat pump which can dump heat into the battery as well. In Service Mode my heat pump outlet temp was like 70°C even in very very cold ambient temps.

The Chicago thing almost certainly came down to people not knowing what they are doing. That is ultimately their fault, but also this is new to a lot of these people and if they are not super into cars like some of us are then you can imagine they would have no idea about battery heating and stuff. Over time, this knowledge will grow. Tesla can and should do a better job informing new owners too. If you plug in at a supercharger without preconditioning it will give you a small message on the screen recommending to navigate to it, but they could also send you an email or something with a proper explanation as to why. Not saying they should do that but there definitely are things they can do to better inform their customers.

 

[404 Not Found]

Last weekend, I did a 1300 km road trip in Canada with my Model Y RWD with LFP battery. It was great. Consumption was about 250 wh/km. Summer is 150 wh/km. The car preconditioned most of the trip. Supercharging started at 147 kw at a V2 charger when warm and a full 175 kw at a V3 charger. When ice cold, it started charging at 55 kw. My wife and I camped in the car overnight for 7 hours at -17 C at a 50% SOC. Woke up to a 30% SOC. 20% consumption was more than I expected as the same overnight stay in summer with the A/C on was 12% loss. Temps inside the car were always perfect. I ordered the RWD LFP car as soon as it was announced as I knew it would suit my needs perfectly and for $10,000 less. Good job Tesla.

 

[ThePirate]

Last weekend, I did a 1300 km road trip in Canada with my Model Y RWD with LFP battery. It was great. Consumption was about 250 wh/km. Summer is 150 wh/km. The car preconditioned most of the trip. Supercharging started at 147 kw at a V2 charger when warm and a full 175 kw at a V3 charger. When ice cold, it started charging at 55 kw. My wife and I camped in the car overnight for 7 hours at -17 C at a 50% SOC. Woke up to a 30% SOC. 20% consumption was more than I expected as the same overnight stay in summer with the A/C on was 12% loss. Temps inside the car were always perfect. I ordered the RWD LFP car as soon as it was announced as I knew it would suit my needs perfectly and for $10,000 less. Good job Tesla.

Hey, thanks so much for your info on camping in the winter. I sleep in my MYLR AWD all the time. My partner and I sleep in real sleeping bags, and these are comfortable only in the 50's or 40's F. So, our problem is that the lowest temp you can set (60F? I forget) is waaaay above that. I think we try to turn off everything but leave the fan on setting one. The drain then is quite small in %, let's say 4-6%, but then I have a big battery. I believe the coldest we've every done was not very cold, let's say ~ 15F or like -8C.

*** I really wish Tesla would allow you to set like 50F or 55F for camping mode. Lots of people travel with sleeping bags after all.

GREAT to hear that LFP is workable, winter or summer.

Now, when I will get around to building out a level floor for the thing, that's another question. Oh, and how about a swivel-out galley kitchen? I mean if the hipster kids in their pollution-spewing Sprinter Vans can do it....

#vanlifenotgreen #greenyourride

-TPC

 

[ThePirate]

Wow, I knew AK was big but didn't quite realize how big. 800 miles is NYC to Chicago!

I guess if those gas stations are commercially viable, they could eventually add charging in some of those remote locations assuming there is already enough electricity from electrical transmission lines that run to those areas.


Very interesting setup. Sounds like they give the electricity away for free now. I wonder how much electricity a block heater uses compared to an EV keeping the battery preconditioned.


Dang! AK is truly the frontier.

No one's gonna say that AK is small. But to be fair, San Francisco to Moab is 967 mi, and that was basically a pandemic right of passage. ( @#)$^@(*#&$^ me because I didn't get my MY until long after.) It's much farther to Yellowstone, I believe.

Also, consider drives in just one lil' 'ol state in the west: San Diego to Mt. Shasta is 729 mi. The difference is we can do every mile at superchargers... heheheheheheh. Down here we consider "the frontier" to be Weaverville, CA (8 superchargers, 250 kW) (TO be fair, the actual superchargers in Shasta City are only 150kW. Same for the COMPLETELY SUCKING 150 kW superchargers at mammoth. (How about a campaign for 250kW, NO SHARING, for Mammoth and Lee Vining?)

So, you know, there are big road trips in the lower 48, too. (And bears and salmon! Just not polar bears or mosquitos to rival them in size. And no 5000 m+ mountains.) We have a few more people on the road, though, I'll give you that.

-TPC

 

[electrons4u]

*** I really wish Tesla would allow you to set like 50F or 55F for camping mode. Lots of people travel with sleeping bags after all.

I second that! Even better would be for Tesla to "un-automate" the exasperating climate control so that you can turn on the fan without heating or cooling, like old cars. Also, if you're at highway speeds in old cars you don't even need the fan, but maybe Tesla has engineered a convoluted airflow path that requires a fan.

Nobody cares what the numerical temperature setting is, at least while you're driving. All you care about is whether or not you need some heat or some cooling. In camp mode I can see a temperature setting being useful IF you wanted some heat, but it needs to go really low, like 32°F. I've got a sub-zero sleeping bag and a "summer" 32°F bag, but I'd roast in both of them with the climate system as it works now. I just turn climate off and crack the window, but then it's a problem if it rains or snows during the night. Too bad there's no official way to tell Tesla about this stuff. I've given feedback to Tesla Service via the Tesla App, but so far that's a total joke. If anyone knows a better way, please tell us.

 

[pnwadventures]

I second that! Even better would be for Tesla to "un-automate" the exasperating climate control so that you can turn on the fan without heating or cooling, like old cars.

[...]

I just turn climate off and crack the window, but then it's a problem if it rains or snows during the night.

100% and +1 to the above. I actually wish the climate control system offered upper and lower bounds - like a traditional (home) thermostat - instead of a single temperature that it will continually attempt to drive towards, resulting in continual use of energy. In other words, turn on the heat if it goes below 18º ~ 65ºF, turn on the cooling if it goes above 22º ~ 72ºF. In the middle, just relax.

 

[coleAK]

No one's gonna say that AK is small. But to be fair, San Francisco to Moab is 967 mi, and that was basically a pandemic right of passage. ( @#)$^@(*#&$^ me because I didn't get my MY until long after.) It's much farther to Yellowstone, I believe.

Also, consider drives in just one lil' 'ol state in the west: San Diego to Mt. Shasta is 729 mi. The difference is we can do every mile at superchargers... heheheheheheh. Down here we consider "the frontier" to be Weaverville, CA (8 superchargers, 250 kW) (TO be fair, the actual superchargers in Shasta City are only 150kW. Same for the COMPLETELY SUCKING 150 kW superchargers at mammoth. (How about a campaign for 250kW, NO SHARING, for Mammoth and Lee Vining?)

So, you know, there are big road trips in the lower 48, too. (And bears and salmon! Just not polar bears or mosquitos to rival them in size. And no 5000 m+ mountains.) We have a few more people on the road, though, I'll give you that.

-TPC

That drive I mentioned isn’t even across 1/2 of the state. Ketchikan to dead horse is >2000 miles one way

CA vs AK

CA at its widest point ~340 miles vs AK ~2,300 miles.

CA at its tallest point ~680 miles vs AK ~1200 miles.

Land area vs AK ~663,000 mi^2 vs 163,000 mi^2. So if we cut AK into 4 states then CA would be the 6th largest state.

We also have about as many airports as the entire lower 48 combined.

We also have people that live ~1500 miles from the closest hospital

And all that land and only two Tesla super charger locations and now 8 3rd party CCS supercharger locations.

I was born and raised in Tahoe (NV) have family all over CA and love to give them a hard time.