371 Wh/km (600 Wh/Mile) consumption in the deep freeze

[Braumin]

371, not bad! Then I too, realized it was km and not miles. 600Wh/mi!!! Then again, being able to get out and do anything at -33°f is impressive to me. How do you even start your ICE without an engine block heater? At those extreme temps, I would think even if low efficiency, it must be far easier to get going in an EV than an ICE.

As for running all-seasons, is it even legal in Canada? I know several provinces require snow-rated tires.

Most people do have block heaters here and they have to use them when it gets this cold. My last 2 cars that did not have block heaters were both BMW 335i sedans and BMW stopped providing block heaters for some reason. They do provide a trickle charger for the battery and I would plug that in when it was super cold. The engine always did start though - full synthetic really helps. Sometimes it didn't enjoy it much though.

Definitely easier to get going in an EV. I just open the app and tell it to start warming up a couple minutes before I am going to leave and then I go! Nice to be able to precondition in the garage. You can't run your ICE in your garage to let it warm up obviously.

All seasons are legal all year in Canada in a lot of places, including where I live. I just think people are crazy to use them. I prefer to be able to stop when necessary.

 

[EatsShoots]

l ask myself the same thing every year when it's this cold. Why do I live here? Never came up with a good answer yet.

We spent two years there when I was young. My memories of the winter are not pleasant. Pretty sure our car did have an engine block heater.

 

[ThePirate]

So WHAT THE HECK ***IS*** the story with the "Great Chicago Winter 24 Tesla Mass Fail"? BEV haters, especially Fox "news", were laughing 'til they wet their pants... and reported ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the way of facts or details. The only actual information I got from any of those reports was "...wont' charge". I can only find two sensible possibilities:

* Actual failure of superchargers in cold (But then, how do superchargers work in saskatchewan, northern Norway etc. etc. where there are no news crews making hay?)
* full discharge (i.e. past zero) of batteries so no pre-conditioning (In this case, why wouldn't the charger power heat the batteries after a while?)

It cannot be just the temp. There are posts right here of people in lower temperatures with no problems.

I would *really* like to know what the HECK happened to create the GCW24TMF.

-------------
One day last winter my poor California Car woke up at 5F (-15C) with no scheduling or pre-conditioning. OhCrap I thought. My friend says his Bolt is sluggish around freezing, so I thought I was in for big trouble. I hope it moves at all! Well, It moved with zero, as in absolutely NO noticeable, performance degrade. Then I plugged it into a crummy destination charger, didnt notice slow charging performance at all. Then I parked it in the shade in a 100% ice-covered parking lot for the day. Driving that day, I didn't notice significant range degrade either, but I wasn't really watching. News reports in the Guardian said it was -5 in Chicago, so just not that different. What the heck?

-TPC

-------------
2023 cheap-ass no options Pearl White MYLR

 

[Zeeshan Javaid]

My model X 2016 90D consumption today

 

[KenC]

My 6th winter for my Model 3 in Maine, and I never think about the cold and how it affects my car. My car sits outside year-round. I was skiing yesterday, and stayed at the hotel. There's my car connected to the free hotel Tesla destination charger. I park there, whether I'm staying at the hotel or not. It's allowed, and it's free! Better yet, it's as close to the main lift as you can get. The closer cars are resort shop owners, and handicap spaces. If you've ever had to park in remote lots to go skiing, you can't believe how great a perk that is to park so near the main lift.

Anyhow, it was single-digit temps that night and the car is fine. Charged fine, starts fine, drives fine. What's not to like about a Tesla in winter?

 

[vogz]

Funny to read this alongside the news today concerning Chicago. I don’t want to sound like one of those Tesla owners spewing rainbows despite the circumstances, but seems like there is more to the story than all of the news outlets let on. I live in the Colorado Rockies and Tesla’s are everywhere. I’ve also read about folks who love in even colder climates and they seem happy with their Teslas.

Yea, seems like a number of contributing factors in the Chicago area charger issues. The first is compared to how large a metro area we have, we have comparatively less supercharger density vs. other metro areas. Add to that a TON of LFP Model 3s out there doing rideshare with people driving them who don't really understand the dynamics of an EV. THEN Add to that a winter storm, a deep freeze afterward and a bunch of EV noobs dropping charging cables into the snow causing the connector to freeze up and you have a recipe for disaster. I luckily charge at home 99.9% of the time and haven't had to deal with any of the crap show.

 

[EatsShoots]

So WHAT THE HECK ***IS*** the story with the "Great Chicago Winter 24 Tesla Mass Fail"? BEV haters, especially Fox "news", were laughing 'til they wet their pants... and reported ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the way of facts or details. The only actual information I got from any of those reports was "...wont' charge". I can only find two sensible possibilities:

* Actual failure of superchargers in cold (But then, how do superchargers work in saskatchewan, northern Norway etc. etc. where there are no news crews making hay?)
* full discharge (i.e. past zero) of batteries so no pre-conditioning (In this case, why wouldn't the charger power heat the batteries after a while?)

It cannot be just the temp. There are posts right here of people in lower temperatures with no problems.

I would *really* like to know what the HECK happened to create the GCW24TMF.

-------------
One day last winter my poor California Car woke up at 5F (-15C) with no scheduling or pre-conditioning. OhCrap I thought. My friend says his Bolt is sluggish around freezing, so I thought I was in for big trouble. I hope it moves at all! Well, It moved with zero, as in absolutely NO noticeable, performance degrade. Then I plugged it into a crummy destination charger, didnt notice slow charging performance at all. Then I parked it in the shade in a 100% ice-covered parking lot for the day. Driving that day, I didn't notice significant range degrade either, but I wasn't really watching. News reports in the Guardian said it was -5 in Chicago, so just not that different. What the heck?

-TPC

-------------
2023 cheap-ass no options Pearl White MYLR

Long and short of it is once the temps got low every tesla in chicago was permanently bricked. All the tree huggers in their EVs, who have stickers telling off gas guzzlers, had to walk home in the cold and many died during the walk. The most contrite of them were able to beg and plead for some folks driving domestic pickups to pick them up from the side of the road, just as long as they first admitted on camera that they were wrong and oil is god. That's basically what happened.

or

It was unusually cold, and a small percentage of EV owners were caught off guard and there was a temporary issue also at some chargers that coincided with a spike in demand and, as usual, people who hate EVs for whatever silly reason jumped on it like a fly to scat and elevated the story as high as they could.

 

[Marsh25]

Awww, that's so cute... try it with a trailer.

 

[404 Not Found]

The Chicago reports reminds me of most news media disaster coverage. Tornado, earthquake, flood etc. They zoom in on two demolished houses while ignoring the paradise surrounding them. Two dozen rental or new owner Tesla cars while thousands of other Teslas happily drive by, some easily heading to another Supercharger. There's only 24 Teslas in Chicago, right?

 

[ThePirate]

Yea, seems like a number of contributing factors in the Chicago area charger issues. The first is compared to how large a metro area we have, we have comparatively less supercharger density vs. other metro areas. Add to that a TON of LFP Model 3s out there doing rideshare with people driving them who don't really understand the dynamics of an EV. THEN Add to that a winter storm, a deep freeze afterward and a bunch of EV noobs dropping charging cables into the snow causing the connector to freeze up and you have a recipe for disaster. I luckily charge at home 99.9% of the time and haven't had to deal with any of the crap show.

So LFPs do worse in winter? I confirmed that with a quick google, and I had *never* heard of that before. Thanks!

The article I actually read was poor, and kind of implied that new CATL LFPs charge faster than NMC batteries in ideal temps. Is that true?

Previous to this post, I had understood that LFPs were more robust for 0-100% charging, but the tradeoff was energy density, i.e. range. So, they seemed best for people who only intended to go short distances, and for rentals. If charging is significantly faster, however, that is a whole different thing.

 

[ThePirate]

Long and short of it is once the temps got low every tesla in chicago was permanently bricked. All the tree huggers in their EVs, who have stickers telling off gas guzzlers, had to walk home in the cold and many died during the walk. The most contrite of them were able to beg and plead for some folks driving domestic pickups to pick them up from the side of the road, just as long as they first admitted on camera that they were wrong and oil is god. That's basically what happened.

or

It was unusually cold, and a small percentage of EV owners were caught off guard and there was a temporary issue also at some chargers that coincided with a spike in demand and, as usual, people who hate EVs for whatever silly reason jumped on it like a fly to scat and elevated the story as high as they could.

I have no doubt that all the teslas were bricked, and their owners are currently in the morgue defrosting! The guy here who *claims* to be driving long distances up to ski hills in Maine at the same temperature, with no problems, is probably a tree-hugger, faking it. (The picture was probably taken in HI with fake snow.) I heard that thousands of Tesla owners, stuck in the snow without heat, resorted to cannabalism to survive until they could be rescued.

I had a great laugh over that, thanks so much!

-TPC

 

[electrons4u]

Do you get any regen at all in temps like that? Especially at high SOC I imagine it would be almost zero!

I got some regen but it was reduced. The "reduced regen" icon

was on the screen the whole trip.

 

[EatsShoots]

So LFPs do worse in winter? I confirmed that with a quick google, and I had *never* heard of that before. Thanks!

The article I actually read was poor, and kind of implied that new CATL LFPs charge faster than NMC batteries in ideal temps. Is that true?

Previous to this post, I had understood that LFPs were more robust for 0-100% charging, but the tradeoff was energy density, i.e. range. So, they seemed best for people who only intended to go short distances, and for rentals. If charging is significantly faster, however, that is a whole different thing.

They are widely thought to do worse in winter, although for what it's worth I've been unable to find anybody able to quantify it--like some real numbers.

 

[dusty22]

404 Not Found said

The Chicago reports reminds me of most news media disaster coverage. Tornado, earthquake, flood etc. They zoom in on two demolished houses while ignoring the paradise surrounding them. Two dozen rental or new owner Tesla cars while thousands of other Teslas happily drive by, some easily heading to another Supercharger. There's only 24 Teslas in Chicago, right?,

 

[vogz]

They are widely thought to do worse in winter, although for what it's worth I've been unable to find anybody able to quantify it--like some real numbers.

I also haven't been able to find anything to quantify it. My hypothesis is that the larger factor is that the LFP Teslas are all single motor and don't have standalone battery heaters so they just don't have the same battery heating capacity as dual motor cars or the S/X that have standalone heaters (or used to).

 

[ThePirate]

I also haven't been able to find anything to quantify it. My hypothesis is that the larger factor is that the LFP Teslas are all single motor and don't have standalone battery heaters so they just don't have the same battery heating capacity as dual motor cars or the S/X that have standalone heaters (or used

Here's a Canadian driving around at night at -35 to -40 (C I suppose, but down there there's not much difference between C and F) going to not just superchargers, but to public chargers. They all work fine.

What's the problem with charging EVs in the winter, eh? Faster than thawing your maple syrup or waiting for poutine.

-TPC

 

[XPsionic]

Here's a Canadian driving around at night at -35 to -40 (C I suppose, but down there there's not much difference between C and F) going to not just superchargers, but to public chargers. They all work fine.

What's the problem with charging EVs in the winter, eh? Faster than thawing your maple syrup or waiting for poutine.

-TPC

While this video showed impressive charging speed, it's not always possible to replicate for some Tesla drivers, like the ones in Chicago, I'll explain:

1. Video guy drove 78km on highways and could pre-condition the entire way, using 11% battery capacity just for preconditioning
2. He's driving an AWD model which could generate more waste heat for more effective pre-conditioning
3. His car had plenty of time to precondition, well over half an hour, also had enough battery life left for the car to go full bore on generate waste heat
4. His car doesn't have a LFP pack which is both heavier and less energy dense with chemistry that's less reactive in colder temperatures

For someone driving for ride share in Chicago using a new LFP RWD Model 3, for example, even assuming that the superchargers work perfectly (which some of them definitely didn't for various reasons), all 4 of those points would work against them. They would have less time to precondition, less waste heat generated, more battery mass to heat up, and without home charging, they'd be starting off at a lower battery %, which makes the car less willing to waste energy to precondition.

While it is obvious that an EV, especially a Tesla definitely can work and charge fine in extreme cold weather, there are use cases that EVs are not good for. Usable, but much less than ideal. Ride share in a LFP RWD is definitely not a use case I would recommend.

ps. Notice how the video car used 25kwh for 78km. Imagine a RWD or a SR+ with 50-55kwh usable energy, and add in another 10-15% buffer so you don't run the pack dry... the usable range in -35c is absymal, and with less effective precondition than shown, even with superchargers that work and doesn't have lines, you're looking at driving maybe 150km, then having to charge for 40 minutes (if not more). Not ideal.

 

[MikeChicago]

So WHAT THE HECK ***IS*** the story with the "Great Chicago Winter 24 Tesla Mass Fail"? BEV haters, especially Fox "news", were laughing 'til they wet their pants... and reported ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the way of facts or details. The only actual information I got from any of those reports was "...wont' charge". I can only find two sensible possibilities:

* Actual failure of superchargers in cold (But then, how do superchargers work in saskatchewan, northern Norway etc. etc. where there are no news crews making hay?)
* full discharge (i.e. past zero) of batteries so no pre-conditioning (In this case, why wouldn't the charger power heat the batteries after a while?)

It cannot be just the temp. There are posts right here of people in lower temperatures with no problems.

I would *really* like to know what the HECK happened to create the GCW24TMF.

-------------
One day last winter my poor California Car woke up at 5F (-15C) with no scheduling or pre-conditioning. OhCrap I thought. My friend says his Bolt is sluggish around freezing, so I thought I was in for big trouble. I hope it moves at all! Well, It moved with zero, as in absolutely NO noticeable, performance degrade. Then I plugged it into a crummy destination charger, didnt notice slow charging performance at all. Then I parked it in the shade in a 100% ice-covered parking lot for the day. Driving that day, I didn't notice significant range degrade either, but I wasn't really watching. News reports in the Guardian said it was -5 in Chicago, so just not that different. What the heck?

-TPC

-------------
2023 cheap-ass no options Pearl White MYLR

Fox News and facts don’t mix. We drove our EVs in this super cold weather. No problem at all. Consumption is up as expected. My wife shrugged and charged to 85% instead of the usual 80% and that was it. Garage parked. Preconditioned. Easy.

I don’t remember the last time I had to scrape ice of the car or freeze my butt off at the gas pump. Call me “radical,” but this EV experience is much better than any gas car I’ve owned to date.

People are a bunch of drama sardines. That’s my takeaway.

 

[timberlights]

I was in chicago this week. Did not drive by the Oakbrook supercharger which was prominent in the news, but did drive by the Burr Ridge supercharger multiple times and only saw one car "stuck" there. It was a model s maybe 2020 and plugged in for 3 days there--no idea what the issue was. Also our desination charger at work was functioning fine.

 

[coleAK]

I’m in Alaska. On my 9th winter with a Tesla (6th with the LR AWD model 3 and had a model s before the 3).

A few things I have noticed.

Regen does nothing for range. In early to mid October when I switch from my summer all seasons to studded winter Hakka 9’s I switch to chill and regen low, then leave it there until I switch back the tires some time in May. Same roads, same weather with regen low there is no difference at all in wh/mi. I’ve done a bunch of tests same drives. I’ll also add that I have ~1000’ vertical chance between my house and work. Still no difference.

Winter tires, as above, same roads same temps. Switching from my mxmp4 ORM summer tires to the aggressive, soft, studded Hakka 9’s I possibly get up to a 1% increase in Wh/mi. That is mostly in the 35-45 mph range and never >65 mph for any extended period.

Cold. Where I live we haven’t seen temps above freezing since early November, it hasn’t been above 20F (-6F) since mid November, I’m currently sitting on 8-10 feet of snow in my yard. I don’t see much of a range reduction until temps hit the teens F (-teens C). Clear day temps in the low 20’s F on my winter tires, regen low, I easily get ~250 wh/mi (rated). From there Down to ~10F I’m usually 257-300 wh/mi. 0F (-20F) and below is at least 400 wh/mi. Last night driving back from my cabin, clear roads, running 55-65 mph, headwind, coldest was -19F, warmest was -4F I used a whopping 35% to go 45 miles. Car showed 480 wh/mi the last 30 miles.

Snow, fresh (especially loose) snow can easily increase w/mi by 150-200+. I had a day early October this fall when we got 4” of heavy slush, 38 degrees I was at 500 wh/mi.

Worst day of the year. Temps around 0F, fresh snow, I have days where I’m at 600-700wh/mi.

A few things that have changed. At some pint there was an update that greatly increased the amount of “battery conditioning”. My guess is to allow for better supercharging. For me what it has done is increased the amount of vampire drain from the cold exponentially. For example: it used to me when I would go to my cabin (dry, only 12v power) my car could sit for 2 nights at below 0F. When I would go home I would leave with the “snowflake” and would gain battery back as it warmed up. So there were time I’d get to my cabin with say 60%. Then 48 hours later leave to go home with 50%, drive 45 miles and be at 40%. Not anymore, due to the aggressive conditioning I regularly lose an additional 15-20%, that doesn’t come back. I used to use ~40% traveling those 90 miles. Last 2 winters it is ~60%.