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500 + Mile Range Debate

pderbyshire

MY, Red, 19", Blk 5, Tow, OD:06/19, DD:09/11
Jul 8, 2021
58
43
Fisherville, Ontario, Canada
I look forward to 500 mile or more range for the Model Y. I am one of those people who tow a utility trailer or other higher load/tow hitch needs. So, it is not so much about how far I can do a very long trip (although that is nice). It is more about getting a decent distance while pulling or carrying extra weight for me.

For example, even though the Model Y has a range of 300+ miles EPA, I only get about 100+ miles when towing(weather, hills, weight, etc). So, having a theoretical ideal range of 500+ may more than double my current towing range and perhaps speed up charging stops.

Today, I need to charge to near 100%, drive to a destination 100+ miles away, charge to near 100%, then drive back. Depending on whether I am carrying more weight on the way or on the return, that is where the range anxiety occurs. This is especially true since the majority of the driving is NOT near a major city or major highway where the superchargers are located in my region. As well, almost no 250kW superchargers or 3rd party chargers on many of my routes. NOTE: charging to near 100% is very time consuming (<80% fast, <90% slow, <100% slowest charge)

As you can see, just the extra range alone will solve major towing and related concerns for me and make an ICE vehicle's fast gas up advantage obsolete. With the extra capacity I may not have to charge to near 100% and potentially not have to charge at all for the trip. I would jump at the chance to buy a 500+ mile range model Y even if it is more expensive.

I have one Model Y, second on order right now.
 
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nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,341
11,392
United States
I am one of those people who tow a utility trailer or other higher load/tow hitch needs.

I'd like to see trailers with an integrated battery. Seems like that would be an elegant solution to the reduced range when towing AND it could provide backup power to a house. You also wouldn't be hauling the extra battery weight when you don't need it. The battery wouldn't necessarily need to be connected to the car. You could just put small drive motors in the wheels so the trailer can help 'push' could work similar to how trailer brakes work.
 

pderbyshire

MY, Red, 19", Blk 5, Tow, OD:06/19, DD:09/11
Jul 8, 2021
58
43
Fisherville, Ontario, Canada
I'd like to see trailers with an integrated battery. Seems like that would be an elegant solution to the reduced range when towing AND it could provide backup power to a house. You also wouldn't be hauling the extra battery weight when you don't need it. The battery wouldn't necessarily need to be connected to the car. You could just put small drive motors in the wheels so the trailer can help 'push' could work similar to how trailer brakes work.
Unfortunately, while I agree it seems elegant to have a trailer with motor/battery, the beauty of a utility trailer is the abuse it takes, low or no insurance and the low cost. A trailer with motor/battery would be VERY expensive and technically might not be classified as a trailer anymore. If a trailer has a drive train, you have may have extended your "vehicle" and to carry similar weight capacity (Battery + drive train + frame + capacity) may require a different license and insurance due to length, weight, liability and laws in your region/territory.
 

TomServo

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,598
1,053
Belleville IL
Need vs Want. Tesla could release a 500 mile EPA rated vehicle tomorrow. I’m guessing that would require another 55 to 60 kW bigger battery for the 3/Y. How much more would that cost? As an option for the folks with $$$$.

To quote Big Daddy Don Garlits when asked how much HP is needed, his reply: If some is good, and more is better than too much is just right. Change HP to EV range for today’s discussion.
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,341
11,392
United States
Need vs Want. Tesla could release a 500 mile EPA rated vehicle tomorrow. I’m guessing that would require another 55 to 60 kW bigger battery for the 3/Y. How much more would that cost? As an option for the folks with $$$$.

To quote Big Daddy Don Garlits when asked how much HP is needed, his reply: If some is good, and more is better than too much is just right. Change HP to EV range for today’s discussion.

The big difference there is that you can enjoy/benefit from increased HP ~everyday you drive your car. If my Tesla had 100HP that would suck ~everyday. But my Tesla could have a ~100 mile range and I wouldn't notice/care ~90% of the time. And the bigger battery makes your car A LOT heavier ALL the time.
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,412
1,578
DFW
The big difference there is that you can enjoy/benefit from increased HP ~everyday you drive your car. If my Tesla had 100HP that would suck ~everyday. But my Tesla could have a ~100 mile range and I wouldn't notice/care ~90% of the time. And the bigger battery makes your car A LOT heavier ALL the time.
Better to have and not need than to need and not have.
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,341
11,392
United States

ICE Cars Have Relative Range Equilibrium: Will This Be True Of EVs?


"Building huge batteries into our vehicles is a horrible idea. The weight alone is reason enough but when you factor in the resources depleted to have that battery it's really a losing argument. ... At that point, charging speed is WAY more important than range. ... Why do you need a lot of range when EVERYWHERE you stop has charging. And this is only talking about the 'road trip' scenario. Daily driving is a whole different thing when you leave each day fully charged."

IMHO range is actually MORE important for ICE. If you have 300 miles of range and a 40 mile commute that means a trip to the gas station ~once a week. If you have 450 miles of range maybe you can skip a week. So more range adds convenience. Kind of irrelevant with an EV when you can refuel at home.
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,412
1,578
DFW
if the number of supercharger locations would increase significantly(5 to 10 x) the current batteries would probably be ok.
Even throwing a 4 pack of V3's with battery backup at every rest stop and travel plaza would be a great help. But my motives for bigger battery are in holding high charge speeds for longer..

Our MX SR Raven (BTX5) will hold 130 - SOC% to 65% once it starts taper from peak (~146KW on V3, ~128KW on V2)
Our P3D is a bit more finicky on peak rates but generally holds ~160 - SOC% to 70% once taper from peak starts.
 

roblab

Active Member
Jul 15, 2008
3,690
3,201
Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
The way I see it, even though several here think it's almighty important, there just isn't the NEED for 500 miles of range. My car gives me 400 miles of range, and I never use that much. More like 250 - 300, or less, even. Superchargers are all over the place, and the human body does not like sitting trapped inside a car for 5 hours. I can't see that it saves much in time having to make one more charging stop. What's the need?

And even a gas stop takes several minutes, what with having to go inside to buy a cup of coffee and use the restroom while the tank fills. It isn't a marathon or a cannonball race. Hearing someone say that they made the trip in 5 hours vs. 5 1/2 hours is silly, especially when after the "race" is over all they do is sit (again) and watch TV.
 

TomServo

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,598
1,053
Belleville IL
The big difference there is that you can enjoy/benefit from increased HP ~everyday you drive your car. If my Tesla had 100HP that would suck ~everyday. But my Tesla could have a ~100 mile range and I wouldn't notice/care ~90% of the time. And the bigger battery makes your car A LOT heavier ALL the time.
Remember I said it could be Ann”option”. I agree not everyone wants or needs that range. The same applied to me when I bought our Y, I ordered the LR AWD as I didn’t want or need the Performance model. Options are good and is the easiest way to satisfy customers desires.
 
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nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,341
11,392
United States
Options are good and is the easiest way to satisfy customers desires.

Not really. It complicates production. Tesla sure seems to be taking a similar approach to Apple in that they work to guide what their customers want more than providing for every whim. I'm sure a 80A charging option would be welcome to a lot of people but that's not offered. I believe the S/X use the same pack and there are 2 pack options for the 3/Y so that's 3 packs that Tesla will be producing.

I'd love to see the actual cost to Tesla of the performance upgrade. I'd be surprised if it's ~$1k. It's really just a beefier drive unit. If they had that kind of markup on extra battery capacity it's not likely to be popular enough to justify its existence.
 
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golfpilot

Member
Oct 14, 2016
437
416
Modesto, CA
Not really. It complicates production. Tesla sure seems to be taking a similar approach to Apple in that they work to guide what their customers want more than providing for every whim. I'm sure a 80A charging option would be welcome to a lot of people but that's not offered. I believe the S/X use the same pack and there are 2 pack options for the 3/Y so that's 3 packs that Tesla will be producing.

I'd love to see the actual cost to Tesla of the performance upgrade. I'd be surprised if it's ~$1k. It's really just a beefier drive unit. If they had that kind of markup on extra battery capacity it's not likely to be popular enough to justify its existence.
Just like the S. We will see Dual Motor and Performance cars get a range boost. Probably 100KWh packs. ~70KWh packs will likely become SR
 

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