$55k for loaded M3 with 310 mile range

[xav-]

A comparable model S costs $85k, and it only has 250 miles of range.

A fully loaded model S costs $150k and it's still hard for me to understand what it really offers over a fully loaded model 3 besides ludicrous mode (the vast majority of people will be perfectly happy with a 0 to 60 time of 5.1 second). I realize I could be mistaken here.

Am I the only one who believes that a major redesign of the model S or a massive price cut is unavoidable?

 

[gowthamn]

S range and interior update imminent ?

 

[KarenRei]

A comparable model S costs $85k, and it only has 250 miles of range.

A fully loaded model S costs $150k and it's still hard for me to understand what it really offers over a fully loaded model 3 besides ludicrous mode (the vast majority of people will be perfectly happy with a 0 to 60 time of 5.1 second). I realize I could be mistaken here.

Am I the only one who believes that a major redesign of the model S or a massive price cut is unavoidable?

Faster accel, 2 dispays, faster charging, air suspension, power liftgate, unlimited mileage warranty on the battery, battery warranty covers the drive unit, more passenger space, double the interior storage... (list goes on)

 

[gowthamn]

Faster accel, 2 dispays, faster charging, air suspension, power liftgate, unlimited mileage warranty on the battery, battery warranty covers the drive unit, more passenger space, double the interior storage... (list goes on)

Still not worth twice the price.

 

[KarenRei]

Still not worth twice the price.

You asked what it offered over a Model 3. I answered with a (quite incomplete) list.

That doesn't mean "Everyone should think it's worth twice the price". It's just answering your question.

 

[whitex]

Still not worth twice the price.

Tesla P100D $140K. Rimac concept_one, >$1000K. Almost 10x the price for less seats, some more power, but no supercharging network.

Toyota Corolla $18.5. Model 3 $35K. 2x the price, similar cars, no way you will save $17.5K in gas over the lifetime of the car.

Different cars for different people. Their value is in the eye of the customer.

 

[stillandbox]

You could make the same argument about a BMW 3 series and a 7 series. Differences are minimal, but there is obviously a demand.

Personally, I need the cargo space of a full sized sedan/hatch back to carry presentation equipment to bring to clients.

 

[stillandbox]

Also - AFAIK, the M3 will not include a loaner car for service, it will not include the roadside assistance of the S/X. We know for a fact it does not have free supercharging, but I am fairly certain that the S/X will always have freedom supercharging with a referral code based on the comparison wording on the M3 site.

(maybe some of this is known already, TBH, I haven't been following the M3 details too close, as I don't have an interest in the car)

 

[Trunk Gap]

You asked what it offered over a Model 3. I answered with a (quite incomplete) list.

That doesn't mean "Everyone should think it's worth twice the price". It's just answering your question.

Gotta love the internet. You're right on.

FWIW, to me, yes, its worth every penny of 2x the cost. As someone above mentioned, diff car, diff buyers. Is a Ferrari 488 "worth it" for you, or should we take every feature/function and compare it to other cars to determine if its overpriced or not? No thanks. Your call to make if its worth it to you or not.

 

[bob_p]

For the first production runs - a fully loaded Model 3 with the 310 mile battery pack compares closest to a fully loaded Model S 100D (what we had delivered 4 months ago). The Model 3 costs $59.5K while the Model S 100D costs are $115K. Still a 2X price difference - and what we will have in our garage when we get my wife's Model 3 in a few months.

As my wife was looking for any details on the Model 3 over the weekend, in anticipation of being able to place her order, not once did we discuss any disappointment in spending $115K for our S 100D - and her being able to order a similar range Model 3 with most of the same "luxury" features. At least for us, we still view them as different cars - for different purposes.

We'll continue to use the S as our road trip car - because we use the additional storage space on our trips. We plan to use the 3 as my wife's "commuter" car - primarily driving in rush hour to/from her office. Though with the longer range, if there are cases when she needs to take a road trip herself - she'll use the 3.

We're likely going to see Tesla increase emphasis on the benefits of the Model S vs. the Model 3. FUSC (Free Unlimited Supercharging) might go back to being a permanent feature of the Model S, or possibly a higher amount of included free charging compared to the Model 3.

Battery pack upgrades are another obvious area for Tesla to address. With the first production Model S cars now 5 years old, it may be time for Tesla to introduce a battery replacement/upgrade program. And, assuming Tesla can refurbish used battery packs to close to the original capacity, at a fraction of the cost of a new battery pack, they may be able to provide attractive pricing for battery upgrades - extending the range for those who purchased 40's, 60's, 75's, 85's or 90's.

It's true that for many owners of S & X today, those cars are the most expensive cars they've ever purchased. And for those Tesla customers, if the Model 3 had been available, they could have spent less and purchased the smaller Model 3 instead of their S or X. So S sales will likely take a hit in the short term - as will X when the Y comes out.

But we should also expect Tesla to increase differentiation between the S & 3 product lines - and provide a higher end flagship model, for those willing to spend more. My biggest concern is whether or not they'll do something to protect the value of the Model S cars we already own, or this will only apply to new vehicles.

They've already retroactively added FUSC to all Model S cars delivered after January - so they've set a precedent for applying new benefits to existing cars - and they could do something like that for the battery replacement/upgrade plan, offer something as a benefit for Model S & X customers.

Will be interesting to see how Tesla handles this in the next year, as Model 3 production ramps up...

 

[KarenRei]

I actually expect somewhat of a boost in S sales in the short term, as the fraction of the people who thought that Model 3 was going to be "S on the cheap" and have the money to buy an S will do so instead of waiting for the 3. The build-up to the 3 launch had been suppressing S sales, and I think this dose of reality will restore them.

In the long term, when the reservation list on the 3 is gone and people don't have to wait 1-2 years, I think there may be more of a hit to the S. But then again, by then I expect the EV market to have grown, and expect to see an S refresh, so I don't think they'll actually lose out much. Plus, the S and X are going to increasingly be halo cars for Tesla.

 

[croman]

Fully loaded 3 is $61.5k including $1k reservation. A 75D w/ EAP and FSD is 79.5k. You actually get a federal tax incentive with the 75D, dropping its price to nearly where the 3 is. I'm not seeing why a 100D (which has more range and far more capacity) is equivalent to a long range 3. Remember, the long range 3 still has only 70-75kwh. Its just smaller and lighter so it goes farther. Its like saying a 100D X isn't equivalent to a 100D S because the X doesn't go as far. When you start eating into the energy capacity for HVAC or driving fast, it will take a bigger % of the range to operate the 3 and your 310 miles will drop a lot faster.

Real life differences are much bigger. Once the 3 is out, people will realize the S doesn't need as much of a push to maintain its elite status. I think the 85kwh battery and concomitant acceleration increases will take care of that $ gap ($10k more for a faster better car that goes just as far as a 3).

 

[KarenRei]

When you start eating into the energy capacity for HVAC or driving fast, it will take a bigger % of the range to operate the 3 and your 310 miles will drop a lot faster.

I wouldn't be so sure of the first one (it's also a smaller car, so less surface area to lose/gain heat), and concerning the latter, Model 3 is also more aerodynamic (although not as much as their design goal).

 

[kirkbauer]

From an acceleration perspective, 0-60 in 2.5s (P100D) compared to 0-60 in 5.1s (Model 3) is actually a really good deal.

For example, the base price for a Porsche Cayman (0-60 in 4.9s) is $55k. The base price for a 911 Turbo S (0-60 in 2.8s) is $190k. The base price for a 911 GT2 RS (0-60 in 2.7s) is $293k.

I know it isn't all about the 0-60 times, but for some people (like me) that is a big deal. I'll take a quick 0-60 combined with instant torque at any speed over top speed or track performance any day.

 

[number12]

You could make the same argument about a BMW 3 series and a 7 series. Differences are minimal, but there is obviously a demand.

I can't tell if you are joking.

Model S 60d vs p100d is an example of minimal difference. 3 vs 7 series is not an example.

 

[MDMGSO47]

I like the S so much, we have his and hers.

Its like choosing between the 3 series or the 7 series BMW or the C class or the S class MB. It all depends on your tastes, needs, wants and pocketbook. Certainly the Model 3 Tesla will sell more cars because it has a broader market of people who can afford it. That being said, I would buy a Model S over the Model 3 every time. Let's not forget that the Model S is the best car on the road based on looks ( the nose of the Model 3 is butt ugly), performance, safety, innovation, features (TACC and EAP), environmental consciousness, and just plain fun.

 

[McRat]

Something I'd mentioned long ago: Will the M3 be seen as the Porsche 914? Premium badging, but not a 'real' Porsche?

I doubt it will have a big impact, but it will have some impact.

More importantly, the MS75 rwd can't be long for this world. You might even see significant inventory price discounts on them like we saw the 90D. Seems there is $1000 discount on new inventory, but up to $14k on older inventory.

 

[cdub]

Something I'd mentioned long ago: Will the M3 be seen as the Porsche 914? Premium badging, but not a 'real' Porsche?

I doubt it will have a big impact, but it will have some impact.

More importantly, the MS75 rwd can't be long for this world. You might even see significant inventory price discounts on them like we saw the 90D. Seems there is $1000 discount on new inventory, but up to $14k on older inventory.

Huh - I don't think so but who knows. From the reviews it's a blast to drive. It's still a Tesla. If people are stuck up and look down at the Model 3 that's their problem not mine.

 

[mitchellh3]

I think they'll have to do something about the price difference between a 75D and a 100D. It seems too dramatic at the moment for too little value. That was the main reason I didn't get the 100, I could've afforded it but I couldn't get over the $/mile I'm paying for the range increase.

I don't expect/want it to be the same difference as a Model 3 but it is still too drastic I think.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

I wouldn't be so sure of the first one (it's also a smaller car, so less surface area to lose/gain heat), and concerning the latter, Model 3 is also more aerodynamic (although not as much as their design goal).

Smaller car means > surface area to volume ratio, so it'd likely drop in temperature much quicker(fun fact: this is why smaller animals like mice have much faster heart rates than larger animals. They would otherwise lose too much body heat and die in cold weather).

The overall heat energy loss would be less, but the much smaller volume means heat loss per volume is greater. Heat gain is more complex during the day, because so much of it comes from solar energy.