60KW More Efficient???

[dirkhh]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I do wonder, if the P85s typically have more accessories and options added that weigh the car down more.

I was wondering the same thing. But in the US there is no easy way for the owners to know the curb weight of their cars (some other countries have that info as part of the registration paperwork and there it has to include factory installed options). Because the data that you'd really want to collect is "battery, wheels, curb weight"...

 

[lloyds]

Especially if we are looking at the P85+, the rear tires are wider. This along with the 21"s weighing more than the 19"s on the 60kwh car, I am sure this would affect efficiency.

 

[Klaus]

Huh? I thought the loaners were supposed to be top-of-the-line fully loaded cars???

I had a 60 loaner from the factory SC the week of TESLIVE. It had about 300 miles on it.

 

[mknox]

I had a 60 loaner from the factory SC the week of TESLIVE. It had about 300 miles on it.

I must be imagining things. I could have sworn I heard Elon say all loaners would be fully tricked out top-of-the-line models, or else a Roadster if available. I fully understand (now that it's been pointed out here) that there are orphaned and other cars that end up in the loaner program, but if I did hear what I thought I'd heard, why didn't they mention that?

 

[brianman]

I must be imagining things. I could have sworn I heard Elon say all loaners would be fully tricked out top-of-the-line models, or else a Roadster if available. I fully understand (now that it's been pointed out here) that there are orphaned and other cars that end up in the loaner program, but if I did hear what I thought I'd heard, why didn't they mention that?

I think you read too much into what he said. He said they would be making top-of-the-line models for the loaner program. He didn't say they wouldn't use other vehicles as loaners as well. So, for example, there's nothing in what he said that is in conflict with "we have a 60 lying around, and are making it available as a loaner".

 

[Jeff Miller]

Does that analysis take into account that people who pick 21 inch rims would tend to live in the warm areas of the country. I can't imagine driving around Manhattan (as an extreme example) in 21s but here in NC, I can easily imagine it. Then you have different average speeds as TX has 85 mph and lots of NY (?all) have 55 mph.

With such a small data set, it is easy for something like region preference to sneak in.

When the 60 got tested, I personally thought the numbers were shockingly better and didn't really understand it. Now invertors can vary in efficiency and it is possible that the invertor for the 60 is more efficient. I highly doubt that the better acceleration of the 85 alone would affect EPA numbers. I also doubt that it would effect real life numbers that much since accelerating to 60 in 4 secs uses only a tiny bit more energy than getting there in 6 secs with an EV - sure there is a tiny bit of extra heat generated but it is probably in the 1% range.

It's certainly true that this is a small data set so I wouldn't want to read too much into it. I also agree that to do a serious analysis you'd need to think about the kinds of issues you raise. I hadn't considered that the 21" wheels might be predominantly concentrated in warmer states.
I looked at the total data set for the 85s (basically all the 21" wheels are on 85s, so we can just focus on the 85s), and with a somewhat arbitrary mapping of hot and cold I do see a somewhat higher percentage of 21" wheels in the warm states - 47%
of the 85s have 21" wheels in the warm states vs 39% in the colder states. (This doesn't account for people swapping tires seasonally). The difference isn't huge so this could also be a small sample effect.

Number 19 and 21 inch wheels on 85kwh cars in cold and hot states:

Wheels Hot.Cold N
1 19 c 22
2 21 c 14
3 19 h 27
4 21 h 30

85kwh car data with somewhat arbitrary mapping of cold and hot:

State Wheels Wh N Miles Hot.Cold
2 AB 21 295 1 913 c
3 AK 19 376 1 3285 c
5 AZ 19 309 1 4250 h
6 AZ 21 318 2 9888 h
8 BC 19 335 1 10040 c
10 CA 19 329 10 52383 h
11 CA 21 360 14 80712 h
12 CO 19 346 2 8900 c
13 CO 21 343 1 2765 c
14 FL 19 338 1 5165 h
15 FL 21 317 3 15176 h
16 GA 19 301 2 18606 h
20 IL 19 363 5 13203 c
21 IL 21 379 5 13862 c
22 IN 19 347 1 2881 c
23 IN 21 311 1 3425 c
24 MA 19 384 1 5230 c
25 MA 21 345 1 900 c
26 MD 21 364 1 26083 h
28 MI 19 368 1 12500 c
30 MN 19 358 1 12579 c
31 MN 21 370 2 7611 c
33 MO 19 318 1 13570 c
34 NC 19 266 1 2059 h
35 NC 21 364 1 7623 h
37 NJ 19 380 1 4739 c
40 NY 19 368 2 8762 c
41 OH 19 381 1 6028 c
42 ON 19 342 2 17248 c
43 OR 19 397 1 1565 h
44 OR 21 380 2 5979 h
45 PA 21 370 2 15149 c
47 TX 19 318 6 28017 h
48 TX 21 318 2 13300 h
49 UT 19 357 1 2015 c
50 UT 21 317 1 4400 c
52 VA 19 308 1 3144 h
53 VA 21 342 1 3600 h
55 WA 19 365 4 28518 h
56 WA 21 396 4 21097 h
57 WY 19 293 1 6659 c

 

[gene]

Tesla just gave me a 60kw loaner, 19". I have an S85, 19". This car is noticeably less quick but quite a bit lighter feeling, almost more pleasurable to drive. The lightness makes corners much easier and in hard cornering on my 85 makes tire noise, this 60 makes no tire noise at all. It does not have the Pano like my 85, on the freeway it is much quieter. All these things are trade-offs. Quiet is nice, but without the pano roof, even a closed pano, this 60 feels a bit claustrophobic. Yet, I am so pleased we get Model S loaners! I was bummed at the thought of having to drive an ICE, even for two days.

 

[ZBB]

Huh? I thought the loaners were supposed to be top-of-the-line fully loaded cars???

I had an oddly configured loaner back in June. 85 with tech package and upgraded audio. But no sunroof and cloth seats...

I think they may be using orphans as loaners, or building different combinations to have different price points avail...

 

[lloyds]

In a few months, I will be swapping to 19"s with snow tires. I'm logging the data and will be making a comparison.