8.0 (2.50.185) caution using TACC/Autosteer features

[MXWing]

I discovered more feedback items for Tesla after only driving about 30 minutes this evening.

Below is my email to Tesla. Main point is TACC did not stop for intersecting cross traffic. Note, I'm not blaming TACC as any collision would have been 100% the fault of the Prius driver:

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Dear Tesla,

I wanted to provide additional feedback on firmware 2.50.185 after driving this afternoon and evening.

TACC near collision with Prius Driver:

I was driving 50MPH down a city road with TACC enabled. A Prius driver made a left turn on a red light against my green light driving straight.

TACC made no attempt to slow down nor was FCW sensor triggered. I was able to brake manually and prevent the collision. If I let TACC run, the point of impact would have been the driver side door of the Prius.

Autosteer Confusion

For part of my trip, highway traffic slowed down enough to enable autosteer. The road was the carpool lane on Interstate-5 between Irvine and Anaheim. The lane had a white line on the left, a yellow line on the right and a black line in the middle. Autosteer picked up the black line and the yellow line to drive between. There was not enough width between the black line and yellow line to constitute a lane large enough for the Model X.

FCW False Positive

I had another FCW false positive with TACC enabled. I was going 50MPH down a road that has a dip. Coming down the dip/out of the dip I received a FCW warning, a red phantom car on my dashboard and the Model X began to slow down.

I hope this feedback helps. Please feel free to contact me if I can be
of additional assistance.

 

[krazineurons]

It's all about the time of acquisition. If the object in front of the car is moving when AP first detects it then it gets flagged as something that can move. Those objects it will stop for because it has high confidence that it needs to. If it was at a stop when the AP first detects it then it gets flagged as stationary and AP won't stop for it. For those objects AP is depending on the human behind the wheel to confirm or deny that they are in the path and are an issue. You have to stop for those because AP isn't sure, just too many possible false positives for the system to stop every time it heads towards a stationary object.

Just for my clarity sake, what is the behavior with AP1 when

a) while on the highway under TACC the car detects a moving vehicle in front of it, not when TACC wac engaged but eventually down the path after running for few miles?

b) Same condition as above but this time the car in front is stationary, what is the spec'd behavior?

c) Is it because of AEB that the car attempts to slow down or break when it detects a vehicle in front?

 

[outie]

MXWing I know you are new to AP/TACC, but eventually you will learn how it reacts on different scenarios. There are many instances you cannot rely on the car to do its things and be ready to take control (as Tesla would tell you all the time). Sorry to say while the hardware is "capable of full autonomous", Tesla can't make the software to handle everything for now (or forever?). For the first few weeks of using AP1, it was very stressful guesstimating what it's going to do. I mean we are talking about a car moving at 50mph+. Is it going to stop in time? After driving with AP1 for 3 months I know when to take over / brake / accelerate when TACC is engaged.

 

[MXWing]

MXWing I know you are new to AP/TACC, but eventually you will learn how it reacts on different scenarios. There are many instances you cannot rely on AP to do its things. Sorry to say while the hardware is "capable of full autonomous", Tesla can't make the software to handle everything for now (or forever?). For the first few weeks of using AP1, it was very stressful guesstimating what it's going to do. Is it going to stop in time? After driving with AP1 for 3 months I know when to take over / brake / accelerate when TACC is engaged.

I understand where you are coming from 100%. My feedback is wanting to help develop FSDC and perhaps head off at the pass the undoubtedly unrealistic expectations of the M3 drivers once they go online.

As a community, would we rather see threads like

1 - TACC didn't slow down, I ALMOST hit a car.

2 - Tesla Autopilot is a failure. Kills Prius driver, Tesla being sued by relatives of the Prius and Model X driver.

 

[outie]

We see more of #1s here as owners are quite cautious (I think they pay more attention than when not using TACC but not many people admits it...)

Because of above, #2 is not happening much. Aren't you surprised we haven't seen any #2s by now after your few days of AP usage? Apparently people are quite cautious!

 

[vandacca]

We see more of #1s here as owners are quite cautious (I think they pay more attention than when not using TACC but not many people admits it...)

Because of above, #2 is not happening much. Aren't you surprised we haven't seen any #2s by now after your few days of AP usage? Apparently people are quite cautious!

The reason why we're not seeing #2 (Tesla Autopilot is a failure...Tesla being sued...) is because they haven't managed to get past parking and they're too busy driving through their garage walls. However, they're still trying to sue. Wait until they learn enough of the vehicle to be dangerous to others.

 

[Socalcommuter]

Yeah it can make driving a little more stressful than normal. I've been enjoying testing it out though. It is pretty amazing.

How come they didn't release the autopark? I thought this function would be simpler than autosteer and would be nice to have. Or am I missing something and blind?

Btw, new the forums and new to tesla

 

[thimel]

Just for my clarity sake, what is the behavior with AP1 when

a) while on the highway under TACC the car detects a moving vehicle in front of it, not when TACC wac engaged but eventually down the path after running for few miles?

b) Same condition as above but this time the car in front is stationary, what is the spec'd behavior?

c) Is it because of AEB that the car attempts to slow down or break when it detects a vehicle in front?

Here is my experience with AP1
A) as I approach a car in front of me that is going slower than me, my car nicely slows to that cars speed.
B) as I approach a stopped car that I had not just stopped while my car was tracking it, my car will usually slow and stop. I do not trust this and always hover my foot over the brake in case I need to to manually stop. At times I have manually stopped.
C) for case B, it is TACC that slows me down. I never wait long enough for AEB to trigger. FYI, I keep the Foward Collision Warning on its most sensitive setting. I get a warning once every couple of weeks during manual driving, normally at slow speeds just as I am about to hit the brakes. I used to keep FCW on medium sensitivity and it never went off. I set it more sensitive so I could get used to that alarm and be more likely to respond properly when it went off.

 

[MXWing]

Yeah it can make driving a little more stressful than normal. I've been enjoying testing it out though. It is pretty amazing.

How come they didn't release the autopark? I thought this function would be simpler than autosteer and would be nice to have. Or am I missing something and blind?

Btw, new the forums and new to tesla

Welcome and tell us more! Is this a AP2 Hardware vehicle with the 8.0 (2.50.185) firmware?

No idea on auto park, my guess is Tesla just wants to hit the driving aspects of AP1 as a priority.

 

[3Victoria]

Thanks @3Victoria for the post. I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I just wanted to correct a few points that I thought are important in the understanding of AP.

• It was my understanding that the Florida tractor trailer was in fact moving across the path of the Model-S owner. So technically, it was moving in a perpendicular path (truck was on a cross-street)

Yes, agree perpendicular, so looks stationary in the direction of travel of the car, from the radar's point of view.

• Not sure how the MobilEye hardware failed, but it could have been due to the truck's high stance (radar could see under truck) and therefore mistake it for an overhead sign. If the truck had a aerodynamic skirt, it probably would have been registered by the radar.

Yes, agree ... Mobileye likely 'saw' the lane marking continuing below the trailer. Since the camera was the primary sensor and the radar a secondary sensor, then if the radar disagrees with it the radar is ignored (conclusion is that the radar return indicating something stationary is a overhead sign or other not significant object).

• When radar is reflected, the early signals represent objects that are close by and later signals represents objects that are further away. Large signals represent large objects and small signals represent small objects.

I'm in agreement with pretty much everything else you wrote. When Tesla has completed the "permanent stationary object" map of the highway system, make sure you don't break down under one of those stationary signs.

Thanks.

 

[krazineurons]

as I approach a stopped car that I had not just stopped while my car was tracking it,

Thanks @thimel for your input, this scenario is different than encountering an already stopped car that was not being tracked by AP, or am I reading it wrong?

 

[thimel]

Thanks @thimel for your input, this scenario is different than encountering an already stopped car that was not being tracked by AP, or am I reading it wrong?

You are reading it wrong. I meant a stopped car that was not being tracked by AP.

 

[hariclt]

Posted this in another thread but applicable here too. I have model s though.

So something interesting: I had the update installed New Year's Eve. Took it out for a test drive New Year's Day, couldn't use anything, "camera calibrating" message. I drove max 20 miles New Year's Day. I drove it this morning, and was able to use TACC right away. So it does seem it's not necessarily a time driven in your car or miles driven in your car as far as I can tell.

I tested TACC and autosteer. I had to go out and find traffic on the freeway to test it, it won't work unless you are on the freeway and going under 35 mph. The one day in Southern California traffic is light is today lol, so I was only able to find about a 5 minute backup. But Autosteer worked great, but it wasn't a long test of a difficult freeway (5 freeway).

TACC worked everywhere I tried it. I drove about an hour on and off freeways with it. Over all on the freeway it works great, though it struggles when the radar hits a freeway overpass. It will slow down pretty dramatically for about 2 seconds then it will work itself out and continue on. I let it do this many times, it always recovered I would say It went from 65 down to about 45-50 mph. Not optimal, but I know tesla has talked about this issue and the past and specifically said fleet learning will address that issue. It didn't have that issue over most overpasses I would say, but it did happen 3-4 times.

One thing that worked great was merging onto a different freeway on ramp with a curve. TACC was set to 75, there was a broad curve to this onramp. TACC slowed down to 55-60 to handle the curve then speed back up just like I would have done. Smooth overall.

On the roads, I used it in heavy stop and go traffic, it worked decent most of the time. One time as i was driving next to a bicyclist in the bicycle lane it freaked out and slowed way down then recovered about a second later. The acceleration and breaking can be smoother for sure, but it's not horrible. I got used to it in about 10 minutes.

I think we have to remember Tesla is essentially starting over developing their own image recognition, sensor network etc. I like the idea that it's in house now, not having to depend on mobileeye. But with good comes bad, this means we have to go through all of this "beta" period crap where the software is not 100%. I have had the car about a month and about every two weeks I have recived new updates giving me new features. That's pretty awesome when you think about it. So, things are moving, just be patient.

Awesome post - keep the experiences coming ... Also to all the folks upset about things not working 100% by Dec - indefinitely get it - I got my car on Dec 16 - and really wanted the update - but Tesla is in a death match with software companies, traditional car companies and ride sharing outfits to get to be the best at FSD and EAP is the first step. They wisely changed their platform - tough on AP-1 owners but those cars are holding their value. AP 1 is way better than anything on the market. An nicer audio experience, better web browser and other obivious things the car should have are going to have to wait.. It is a match to end all matches and you bet on Elon (wisely) ... so be patient ... we will know soon if we bet on the right .

 

[Socalcommuter]

Welcome and tell us more! Is this a AP2 Hardware vehicle with the 8.0 (2.50.185) firmware?

No idea on auto park, my guess is Tesla just wants to hit the driving aspects of AP1 as a priority.

Yep AP2 with newest firmware. Thanks for the warm welcome

 

[Tjhappel]

I got to drive extensively today on AP2 during rush hour from Pasadena to San Clemente, I'd say I got at least 40 miles with autosteer on, not easy when 35 mph is the cap! I had a TON of issues when following semi trucks especially speeds under 10, it's not nearly as good as ap1 yet IMO. If your using tacc but not followimg a car almost every bridge or large sign throws a false positive and your car will throw the breaks on. There were times today on the freeway where we were doing 5mph, clear lane marking and cars all around the it showed the road on the display going crazy, shaking and ghost cars jumping in and out in front of me!??? All of that at 5 mph... a little weird but it smoothed out the faster I went. So maybe some of the sensors aren't all working together yet, ca,eras and what not.

So ultimately I'm happy I got chosen to test, I drive 1k miles a week and unless I'm on the phone I report everything to them, I'm a religious cruise control driver so hopefully it helps everyone in the long run. It really seems like they are using one camera only right now with no input from the new cameras and no gps mapping except for where autosteer can or can't work (that works well btw). Weirdly enough tacc seems to act differently day to day for some reason?

People with ap1 shouldn't be top upset yet as I feel we are at least a few months from parity at least. Love my car and I'm happy to test for the future! Keep the pedal to the medal tesla please!!

 

[MXWing]

I got to drive extensively today on AP2 during rush hour from Pasadena to San Clemente, I'd say I got at least 40 miles with autosteer on, not easy when 35 mph is the cap! I had a TON of issues when following semi trucks especially speeds under 10, it's not nearly as good as ap1 yet IMO. If your using tacc but not followimg a car almost every bridge or large sign throws a false positive and your car will throw the breaks on. There were times today on the freeway where we were doing 5mph, clear lane marking and cars all around the it showed the road on the display going crazy, shaking and ghost cars jumping in and out in front of me!??? All of that at 5 mph... a little weird but it smoothed out the faster I went. So maybe some of the sensors aren't all working together yet, ca,eras and what not.

So ultimately I'm happy I got chosen to test, I drive 1k miles a week and unless I'm on the phone I report everything to them, I'm a religious cruise control driver so hopefully it helps everyone in the long run. It really seems like they are using one camera only right now with no input from the new cameras and no gps mapping except for where autosteer can or can't work (that works well btw). Weirdly enough tacc seems to act differently day to day for some reason?

People with ap1 shouldn't be top upset yet as I feel we are at least a few months from parity at least. Love my car and I'm happy to test for the future! Keep the pedal to the medal tesla please!!

Awesome feedback.. be sure to email Tesla with everything you are experiencing. You sound like someone who should get the first release of every firmware - and also the first of every new car LOL. Model 3, Model Y, new Roadster.

 

[Dcr26]

TACC tried to get the car behind me to rear end me last night. Driving down the 605 in socal in carpool doing around 70 suddenly red car image appears, several beeps go off and the car brakes hard for one second. Good thing the car behind me was about 3-4 seconds behind. AP2 x with latest FW

 

[Tjhappel]

Yeah I'm lucky I guess getting to drive so many miles

I have been reporting all false positives to them through the steering wheel "report bug". Should I email them also possibly?

 

[NeverEnough]

Yeah I'm lucky I guess getting to drive so many miles

I have been reporting all false positives to them through the steering wheel "report bug". Should I email them also possibly?

I wish you'd do the same in Austin along my normal routes, but I think that will soon fall to me (if they ever let AP2 out of California).

 

[Tjhappel]

I'm really hoping for an update asap, they need to incorporate all these new sensors and cameras