A few (early) 3 questions

[msa6]

Currently in a '17 M240i with manual transmission, 25k miles. I love the car, but I realize I'm an ideal candidate for a 3. 95% of my driving is in town, with a 15 minute commute to work. I just drove my cousin's X (first time in a Tesla), and was blown away by the build, the handling, the punch. It was really fun to drive (though I do love my manual)! I have a few early questions.

Other than the 95% of my driving that's in town, almost all of the rest is a 240 mile round trip to visit family. Am I right that this will be just outside the "usable" range for the long range 3, meaning I'll have to make provisions to charge it somewhere along the trip? What's anticipated in terms of range improvement in these cars over the next several years? What comes to those who wait??

It looks like my M240i is worth about what it would cost to lease (all in) a 3 over for three years. Curious what sort of operating costs (non power) you're seeing in the early years of lease/ownership. I'm presuming very low...which is where I am now in the BMW...but I anticipate maintenance will begin creeping up as I put more miles on the car. These operating savings would help offset the "loss" of not owning what would then be a five year old M240i when the lease on the Tesla ends (I have historically driven cars for far longer than three years).

Finally, the nearest dealer/service is about an hour from where I live. Others without local dealers have any regrets about buying "out of town"? Guessing service needs (not sure how the remote service works...what might I need in the initial three years of ownership that would require a trip to the dealer, versus what can be done by remote service) are minimal for first few years.

Thanks.

 

[qdeathstar]

Currently in a '17 M240i with manual transmission, 25k miles. I love the car, but I realize I'm an ideal candidate for a 3. 95% of my driving is in town, with a 15 minute commute to work. I just drove my cousin's X (first time in a Tesla), and was blown away by the build, the handling, the punch. It was really fun to drive (though I do love my manual)! I have a few early questions.

Other than the 95% of my driving that's in town, almost all of the rest is a 240 mile round trip to visit family. Am I right that this will be just outside the "usable" range for the long range 3, meaning I'll have to make provisions to charge it somewhere along the trip? What's anticipated in terms of range improvement in these cars over the next several years? What comes to those who wait??

My sr plus gets about 200 miles of range before i feel the need to charge it with a safety buffer( rated at 240 miles). A long range awd is rated at 322 miles so i would think it would make the trip. But you can spend 20 minutes at a supercharger and get all of your range back. I could easily make a 800 mile road trip in my car. There is no need for range anxiety with the proliferation of supercharging stations now. Unless you plan to travel to North Dakota a lot.

What comes to those who wait is more years driving a car they hate, standing around in oil at a shady gas station while a hobo asks them for change, and a realization that they’ve let the best years of their life waste away at the jiffy lube waiting for an oil change.

It looks like my M240i is worth about what it would cost to lease (all in) a 3 over for three years. Curious what sort of operating costs (non power) you're seeing in the early years of lease/ownership. I'm presuming very low...which is where I am now in the BMW...but I anticipate maintenance will begin creeping up as I put more miles on the car. These operating savings would help offset the "loss" of not owning what would then be a five year old M240i when the lease on the Tesla ends (I have historically driven cars for far longer than three years).

Well, there is no oil changes or any sort of routine maintenance so all that’s left is tires and windshield whippers, so that’s the same as any other car. You do need to set up home charging, which I think can be accomplished in most cases for under $2k including the charger.

Finally, the nearest dealer/service is about an hour from where I live. Others without local dealers have any regrets about buying "out of town"? Guessing service needs (not sure how the remote service works...what might I need in the initial three years of ownership that would require a trip to the dealer, versus what can be done by remote service) are minimal for first few years.

Thanks.

I don’t think an hour away is too far. I needed to use there mobile service to fix an issue with my radio..


Why do you want to lease the model three and not buy it outright? Model 3s hold their value quite well.

 

[Knightshade]

Other than the 95% of my driving that's in town, almost all of the rest is a 240 mile round trip to visit family. Am I right that this will be just outside the "usable" range for the long range 3, meaning I'll have to make provisions to charge it somewhere along the trip? What's anticipated in terms of range improvement in these cars over the next several years? What comes to those who wait??

An LR Model 3 should be able to make that trip if needed in warm weather at least... that said, if you're visiting family I'd think you could at least plug into a 120v while there and you'd definitely be fine? On top of that you're in VA, I can think think of many places there you won't pass a supercharger on the way and 5-10 minutes stopping there would definitely resolve any concerns.

It looks like my M240i is worth about what it would cost to lease (all in) a 3 over for three years.

Keep in mind there's no option to buy at the end of a Tesla lease

Curious what sort of operating costs (non power) you're seeing in the early years of lease/ownership.

There aren't any apart from consumable stuff like tires/wipers depending how fast you go through em.

There's no required maintenance otherwise apart from a recommendation (but not requirement) to change the cabin filter and check the brake fluid after 2 years.

Finally, the nearest dealer/service is about an hour from where I live. Others without local dealers have any regrets about buying "out of town"? Guessing service needs (not sure how the remote service works...what might I need in the initial three years of ownership that would require a trip to the dealer, versus what can be done by remote service) are minimal for first few years.

Thanks.

Unless you have warranty issues you won't need service. If you do, mobile service usually handles anything not requiring a lift and comes to you... if you do need a lift, yeah, an hour drive each way would be a pain but probably not enough of one I'd let the remote possibility get in my way.

 

[PJFW8]

Don’t wait. Not only will you drive a great car but you will be years ahead of other manufacturers cars. 18 months driving the model three have been a unique experience.

 

[ecarfan]

Other than the 95% of my driving that's in town, almost all of the rest is a 240 mile round trip to visit family. Am I right that this will be just outside the "usable" range for the long range

For the LR 3 that distance is easily achievable with a 100% charge if air temps are over about 55, no strong headwinds, no rain, no large elevation gain (e.g. a few thousand feet) and you do not exceed 65mph.

I note you live in Virginia, so you have hills/mountains and of course cold weather for half the year.

Don’t worry about all this too much, there are a lot Superchargers in your region and the car nav knows where they are. Go to your local Tesla showroom and have the staff show you how the nav works and finds chargers for a trip.

As for waiting for range and battery improvements; this question is asked over and over again. Tesla continuously improves their cars. Elon likes to say that the best Teslas ever made are the ones they are making right now. So buy one and enjoy it now! If you wait for something better you are missing out on the fun.

 

[jdcollins5]

I have kids and grandkids 250 miles away. I can make the trip in my LR RWD with no issues, except maybe in extreme conditions. I live in NC so little more moderate weather compared to upstate VA.

I have a SC about 30 miles from my destination. I usually stop to recharge just so I will have plenty of range for running around town. I typically make the drive home without recharging. I will charge at my kids at 120V to keep my charge up.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

My long range rwd model 3 is 1 month away from 2 years of ownership. I have spent zero on maintenance (except just bought tires). I have spent zero on electricity due to solar system. Car has gained many new features since I took delivery, faster and longer range also. The instant torque is great for getting onto freeways. You will love owning a model 3.

 

[MapGuy]

I spent a fair amount of time using "A Better Route Planner" before buying our long range model 3. It allowed me to explore routes that I planned to travel and check out charging options along the way (Superchargers, destination chargers, Chademo). Initially, we'd planned on buying an M3 short range plus, but I soon discovered that our needs were better suited to an M3 LR. I recently used ABRP to plan a road trip from Canada down to Mexico. Discovered a shorter route by borrowing a Chademo adapter through an area where Superchargers are still under construction. Check out ABRP.

 

[daniel]

Other than the 95% of my driving that's in town, almost all of the rest is a 240 mile round trip to visit family. Am I right that this will be just outside the "usable" range for the long range 3, meaning I'll have to make provisions to charge it somewhere along the trip? What's anticipated in terms of range improvement in these cars over the next several years? What comes to those who wait??

You won't be able to make the round trip without a charging stop. The LR will make the one-way trip easily. Batteries are constantly being improved, but unlike electronics, battery improvement is very slow. Don't count on significant range improvement any time soon. The next model upgrade will have small improvements. Not worth waiting for.

Curious what sort of operating costs (non power) you're seeing in the early years of lease/ownership.

My only cost other than electricity has been shipping the car from the mainland to Maui when I moved here. And now that I have solar, I no longer pay for electricity. Operating costs: $0.

Finally, the nearest dealer/service is about an hour from where I live. Others without local dealers have any regrets about buying "out of town"?

I've never had a local service center. The Tesla Ranger came to me when I lived in Spokane, and would come to me here if I needed service. Now, my nearest service center is in Oahu, a different island. No regrets so far. I'd say an hour away is no problem. Just my opinion.

The two things I love most about my Model 3 are that it's electric (I hate gas, and now that I have solar, electric is a no-brainer) and autopilot. Anywhere lane markings are clear and I'm not turning (basically all highway and some in-town) the car drives itself, and it's a better driver than I am. (IMPORTANT: Always keep your eyes on the road and your hands on the wheel. Autopilot is not autonomy. But driving is a million times less stressful when you're just keeping your eyes open for issues, and the car is doing the lane-keeping and speed control.)

 

[msa6]

Sounds like 240 mile round trip might be a bit much on LR 3, particularly when variables like temperature come into play. Would 10-12 hours of trickle charge at my destination (this would add 20-40 miles of range, yes?) be enough to make this "work"?

Also, what's known about expected life of the batteries? My thinking on leasing vs. buying was that it makes sense to date the technology, not marry it, presuming battery performance will deteriorate over time (and battery technology will improve over time).

 

[tvad]

You will get 4-5 miles of range per charging hour on a 120v circuit. So, ~40-60 miles of range in a 10-12 hour session.

 

[jdcollins5]

Sounds like 240 mile round trip might be a bit much on LR 3, particularly when variables like temperature come into play. Would 10-12 hours of trickle charge at my destination (this would add 20-40 miles of range, yes?) be enough to make this "work"?

Also, what's known about expected life of the batteries? My thinking on leasing vs. buying was that it makes sense to date the technology, not marry it, presuming battery performance will deteriorate over time (and battery technology will improve over time).

A 120V, 15A receptacle should give you about 5 mph, or about 50-60 miles of range for 10-12 hours.

The battery is expected to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles. Typical degradation has been in the 10% range after 100,000 miles.

 

[RFernatt]

Yes, as an AWD owner driving WV and MD mountainous interstates in cold weather, 240 is way too tight IMO. I drive a routine 300 miles between my home in the Eastern panhandle to Charleston, WV and stop at the halfway point in Morgantown for a quick SC session. That works pretty well and leaves buffer if something goes wrong.150-175 in adverse conditions has worked for me without feeling stressed. Lots of variables that could add or subtract a bit.

 

[daniel]

You won't be able to make the round trip without a charging stop.

Sounds like 240 mile round trip might be a bit much on LR 3, particularly when variables like temperature come into play. Would 10-12 hours of trickle charge at my destination (this would add 20-40 miles of range, yes?) be enough to make this "work"?

Also, what's known about expected life of the batteries? My thinking on leasing vs. buying was that it makes sense to date the technology, not marry it, presuming battery performance will deteriorate over time (and battery technology will improve over time).

My apologies: I misread your OP as 240 miles each way. Barring excessive use of heating, or big mountains, 240 miles round trip would be a piece of cake on the LR Model 3. And if you plug in, even on 120 v., for a few hours, you'll pick up a few more miles.

As for the batteries, Tesla uses very aggressive battery management which will greatly improve battery life compared to, say, the early Nissan Leaf which was notorious for battery degradation in hot weather. And the fact that most of your driving is short distances means that you won't be charging to full or discharging to near empty except for those road trips. I expect the batteries in my Model 3 to outlast the life of the car. When my car reaches its end, I expect somebody to take the batteries for use in a home- or grid-storage system, where having 75% of their original capacity is still plenty useful.[/QUOTE]

 

[DopeGhoti]

Other than the 95% of my driving that's in town, almost all of the rest is a 240 mile round trip to visit family. Am I right that this will be just outside the "usable" range for the long range 3, meaning I'll have to make provisions to charge it somewhere along the trip? What's anticipated in terms of range improvement in these cars over the next several years? What comes to those who wait?

Charge up before you go and you should be able to make that trip in one go. And in most of the US, superchargers are approaching ubiquity; non-Tesla chargers doubly so (although the latter are generally quite a bit slower). Range improvement on a car you already have will be nominal at best, if Tesla finds a way to make the software control of the motors more efficient. Pulling a number out of the air, I'd guess 5% at most. But batteries do degrade over time- that's just physics. This degradation eats away at the overall capacity over time. Tesla does overbuild the batteries' capacity to offset this with a "buffer" you don't get to use, but eventually that's not enough. Tesla warrants the battery to maintain 75% of its capacity over the coverage period.

Curious what sort of operating costs (non power) you're seeing in the early years of lease/ownership

Most people report the operating costs to consist of:

• Electricity (which mile for mile is much lower than petrofuels)
• Windscreen washer fluid
• Tire rotations
• Tires
• Paint protection film
• Window tinting
• Minor aesthetic accessories (e. g. a vinyl wrap for the center console)

 

[msa6]

240 miles is a "piece of cake" in a 3 LR? My cousin tells me that his X showed maximum range the day he drove it home, and has been lower since. Is it not recommended to limit charging to something below 100%, and to avoid going to 0% (or close)? Or should I assume that periodically I'd be okay to stress the battery for 240 mile round trip...charge it to 100% and (if necessary, with no trickle/SC/destination charge halfway through) draw it down close to 0%? As noted above, it will be rare when I'd drive the car more than 30 miles in a day, so my typical push on the battery will be modest.

 

[DopeGhoti]

Is it not recommended to limit charging to something below 100%, and to avoid going to 0% (or close)?

As a matter of course, it's best to keep the battery between (depending on whom you ask) 20%-80% or 15%-85% state of charge to maximize its longevity and minimize degradation. However, it's expected and perfectly fine to, just before or as part of a long trip, charge up to 100% just before setting off. It's charging up to 100% and just leaving it there (or draining to 1% and just leaving it there) that does damage. Charging up to 100%, driving it down to 3%, and either charging back to 100% to continue the trip or to 80% because the trip's done are fine -- and even expected -- behavior.

 

[camalaio]

One question since you are the "ideal" candidate: Are you able to charge the car at home? That's what truly makes one an ideal candidate. Charging at work is good too, jobs just aren't forever and the next job you might not be able to charge at.

As others have pointed out, 240 miles in the cold may not be achievable even with the Long Range model. I'm seeing 32% range reduction below rated (I normally get the rated efficiency in warmer temps) at around 0C/32F (freezing) during highway trips averaging 100 km/h or 60mph. You're looking at 210 miles at that efficiency, and keep in mind it consumes some power while stationary too.

That said, no one has suggested that you get an SR+ yet which I will potentially now suggest. If the Supercharger network around you (on routes you would actually drive) has less than 120 miles between Superchargers, a "base" model SR+ would still be workable without range anxieties and be substantially cheaper. If extra money is no big deal to you though, I would of course recommend the larger battery.

If the Cybertruck and "new" Roadster are to be indicators, in the next couple years we might get larger battery packs giving longer range. These won't necessarily become available on a Model 3, but they might. Tesla has not added any new pack sizes to the Model 3 over its short life yet.

Regarding long term costs, you may want to read through the discussion on this thread: Is a Model 3 really cheaper?: A simplified analysis from an owner. It's biased to long-term ownership costs instead of leasing, but could provide some valuable points for you.

My closest Service Center is 5 hours away. The closest Tesla-approved body shop is also 5 hours away. The closest spot available for even Mobile Service is still 1 hour away. Service appointments for me were backed up over a month, and the 5 hour travel back home when I first got the car voided my ability to resolve delivery defects that I only spotted once I got home. I also just hit a box on the highway yesterday (unavoidable) which I fear I'll have to personally drive 5 hours to the approved body shop, pick up a gas rental vehicle, and drive it back all in one day. Reverse the process whenever it is finally ready. If anything happens to a Tesla, it's a huge pain unless you live in a large urban center like the one 5 hours away from me. I don't regret it entirely, but it's a very strong warning I give to friend and family considering a Tesla that live around here.

 

[jamnmon66]

240 miles is a "piece of cake" in a 3 LR? My cousin tells me that his X showed maximum range the day he drove it home, and has been lower since. Is it not recommended to limit charging to something below 100%, and to avoid going to 0% (or close)? Or should I assume that periodically I'd be okay to stress the battery for 240 mile round trip...charge it to 100% and (if necessary, with no trickle/SC/destination charge halfway through) draw it down close to 0%? As noted above, it will be rare when I'd drive the car more than 30 miles in a day, so my typical push on the battery will be modest.

It would likely be a "piece of cake" as long as you're not using the heater extensively, no significant elevation change (overall... up & down hill average out over the trip) or with any strong headwind or side wind. So, most of the time when the weather is decent, it'll be no problem. Check the route to see if there's a supercharger. If so, then it's a complete non-issue.

For the 0%/100% question, the problem isn't charging to 100% or draining to 0%. It's leaving it there for extended periods of time. So, just time your 100% charge to finish right before you leave and make sure you can charge at your destination, even at 120v, and you'll be fine.

 

[camalaio]

Sounds like 240 mile round trip might be a bit much on LR 3, particularly when variables like temperature come into play. Would 10-12 hours of trickle charge at my destination (this would add 20-40 miles of range, yes?) be enough to make this "work"?

Also, what's known about expected life of the batteries? My thinking on leasing vs. buying was that it makes sense to date the technology, not marry it, presuming battery performance will deteriorate over time (and battery technology will improve over time).

Reliable destination charging is always a huge plus. The alternative is going out of your way to charge somewhere, hopefully a fast charger of some sort (you need a $600 adapter if it's a CHAdeMO charger and not a Tesla Supercharger).

As far as expected life, Elon has said 300,000 miles and 500,000 miles. The math on this works out to about 1500 cycles on the SR+ and LR models, respectively. Of course, as a short distance traveller in an area that gets cold, this is likely 25% less or so since "range" is used for much more than actual distance travelled (if you drive most days, this is mostly heating costs). So 240,000 miles on the SR+, 400,000 miles on the LR. Time plays a role as well of course, but most people aren't asking how a 20 year old Model 3 battery with only 1000 miles on the odometer will perform.

Pack replacement is expensive, with Elon saying $5000-$7000 per module if I remember correctly, and there are 4 such modules in a Model 3 pack to my understanding, so $20,000-$28,000. These are also the future idealised prices. Currently people are getting whole packs replaced for cheaper ($12,000 I think?) only because the used one being swapped out is mostly good, but has a fault, so has significant salvage value to Tesla. A mostly dead battery does not have this value.

It would likely be a "piece of cake" as long as you're not using the heater extensively, no significant elevation change (overall... up & down hill average out over the trip) or with any strong headwind or side wind. So, most of the time when the weather is decent, it'll be no problem. Check the route to see if there's a supercharger. If so, then it's a complete non-issue.

For the 0%/100% question, the problem isn't charging to 100% or draining to 0%. It's leaving it there for extended periods of time. So, just time your 100% charge to finish right before you leave and make sure you can charge at your destination, even at 120v, and you'll be fine.

Just because I believe it's really important to not convince people it will be OK when it may not be, keep in mind that the conditions in the stated "as long as" are outside of the control of the owner, and are likely to occur on any given day.

Additionally, charging to 100% is actually technically damaging in and of itself, but indeed getting it below 100% as fast as possible will prevent further degradation. When I say damaging, keep in mind this is something that happens over repetitions and many cycles, not something you'll immediately notice a 2% drop in range from.

EDIT: Our Model 3 has almost 21,000 km on it (13,000 miles) with no degradation in range. We used to charge to 90% every day, depleting to 60%. Then we changed it to 80%, depleting to 50%. It's gone on some road trips, done a couple dozen Supercharging sessions, charged to 95% twice I believe, and 99% once. It's been down to 8% a couple times, 20-30% much more frequently if on road trips.