A nice surprise (free Ionity leccy)

[Mr Miserable]

Interesting. But I think you overestimate my influence in government circles. If they are aware of it already then I am not sure me raising it will be the thing that tips them over the edge into action. That approach rarely even seems to work with my own children

I know the feeling.
The point is that they are aware that there is a potential problem here that is only going to become more serious as more and more EVs hit the road and more dodgy charging stations appear. I raised the issue with them after being charged for 73.52 kWh when TeslaFi said 62.59 kWh and the car said 61 kWh. A huge discrepancy especially at 36p/kWh!

 

[AlexMasters]

Also interesting to understand what is being metered / charged for, I.e.

1) KwHr for AC input to the Ionity Charger,
2) DC power delivered post conversion (AC step down and DC rectification- this would be between 12 and 36% lower than 1) due to losses. AC/DC conversion is the greatest source of losses and is highest at low power.

3) Power delivered to the battery - impossible to measure from the charger, but you can bet it's likely that the highest value is used to charge

This is an interesting reference for some relevent research. Citation from

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ing_electric_vehicle_charging_and_discharging

By Elpiniki Apostolaki-Iosifidou from Stanford university, Paul Codani from École Supérieure d'Electricité and Willett Kempton from the University of Delaware.

 

[Jason71]

Also interesting to understand what is being metered / charged for, I.e.

1) KwHr for AC input to the Ionity Charger,
2) DC power delivered post conversion (AC step down and DC rectification- this would be between 12 and 36% lower than 1) due to losses. AC/DC conversion is the greatest source of losses and is highest at low power.

3) Power delivered to the battery - impossible to measure from the charger, but you can bet it's likely that the highest value is used to charge

This is an interesting reference for some relevent research. Citation from

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ing_electric_vehicle_charging_and_discharging

By Elpiniki Apostolaki-Iosifidou from Stanford university, Paul Codani from École Supérieure d'Electricité and Willett Kempton from the University of Delaware.

Currently (see what I did there) everyone but Tesla is metering AC input to the charger. Tesla do it on DC by getting the car to take the measurements of what it receives. other suppliers don't have that luxury.
For some reason they claim measuring or metering the DC is problematic at the moment something like suitable equipment or standards not being available but I don't think they are in any hurry to change that since the status quo suits them.
when you compare Teslas 24p price to others you really need to tack an extra 10-30% onto those other prices to make it a fair comparison and they are all more to begin with!

 

[Jason71]

I know the feeling.
The point is that they are aware that there is a potential problem here that is only going to become more serious as more and more EVs hit the road and more dodgy charging stations appear. I raised the issue with them after being charged for 73.52 kWh when TeslaFi said 62.59 kWh and the car said 61 kWh. A huge discrepancy especially at 36p/kWh!

I'm not even sure what a reasonable loss would be? on a 7.2KW AC it's about 10% and at high current its bound to be more you would think? so the above might be normal? we either need a max allowable loss or better yet DC metering but I have read that that is a problem for some reason aside from the fact that it would cost to implement and no benefit from their point of view.
maybe we should start a thread where people report their DC charging results KW charged vs KW into the battery. There are so many variables though including you sitting in the car using power at the same time not sure how much it would tell us.

 

[MrBadger]

The losses on DC rapid chargers vary and you don't know what they are until you see the bill but I am guessing 10-20% since they have zero incentive to make it more efficient so your £

On the only occasion that we thirdparty DC charged (Instavolt, billed as Chargepoint via Shell Recharge), we added 13.62kW to the battery and got charged 15.33kW. So about 11% down.

 

[NorfolkMustard]

These Ionity chargers are no longer free. Seems it was only for the evening they were commissioned, chargeable by this morning.

 

[Mr H]

Feel free to correct me if im wrong below:

Is Ionity part owned by VW/Audi group? and they had to use their "hefty fine" to plough some of that into renewables such as a charing infrastucture?

So all the VW/Audi etc owners who swapped over to EV's (But not on the EV VW/Audi/BMW list), now pay a high price to them again so they can make a profit off a fine! Its a tad Ironic!

Just my thought

No they don’t, if you buy a VW or Audi EV etc then you get a charging ‘deal’ which is way less than Joe public pays. Still more expensive than Tesla though

 

[NewbieT]

So you just need a friend with an ID.3? Good luck with that. Would be interesting to see how they implement the Ionity deal in the UK.

 

[Mr H]

They’ll probably interrogate the VIN just as Tesla do when you use your deal RFID

 

[NorfolkMustard]

aaaand they’re free again. Getting a bit higher rate now too, max 77kW 55-85%

 

[AndyS3]

I wont be using Ionity unless an absolute dire emergency. I will put in the minimum to get me to a Tesla supercharger. If there is an alternative to Ionity, they will get my money

69p/kWatt is taking the piss

 

[NorfolkMustard]

That’s the same as petrol at MSA. Usually more expensive so just top up until you get to a local garage.

although, it’s not normally >4 times the price

I signed up for Maingau yesterday, see how that works out.

 

[Mr H]

My Maingau card arrived today - need to brush up on my German to register it lol

 

[NorfolkMustard]

Their app is in english thankfully, you can login to that and add a RFID card & credit card

 

[Mr H]

I've done it online - english there too lol The paperwork that came with it was German tho

 

[NewbieT]

Their app is in english thankfully, you can login to that and add a RFID card & credit card

Did you use yours at the Ionity? If so, RFID or App? Did it work?

I’ve had my card for a couple of months but no opportunity to try it.

 

[NorfolkMustard]

No. I've always used Paypal up to now - Maingau card on its way.

 

[NorfolkMustard]

I think you can also still get the old flat-fee rate, well £7.60 all you can eat. via a Chargepoint account Join the ChargePoint Charging Network | ChargePoint

 

[DocA]

Ionity's prices are crazy! Clearly a strategic move, and difficult to justify given the amount of public money they've received.

Bjørn Nyland found an interesting trick to getting around half price using the Maingau app. Might be worth a try (while it lasts).

Maingau's page indicates that they'd charge €0.40 / kWh in the UK, which is a little better. The UK falls into the 'other European foreign country' category.

Trying to register, but what do they call the UK in the sign up form?

 

[thegruf]

Feel free to correct me if im wrong below:

Is Ionity part owned by VW/Audi group? and they had to use their "hefty fine" to plough some of that into renewables such as a charing infrastucture?

So all the VW/Audi etc owners who swapped over to EV's (But not on the EV VW/Audi/BMW list), now pay a high price to them again so they can make a profit off a fine! Its a tad Ironic!

Just my thought

that only applied in USA. UK regulators were too inept and toothless to take any action.
There is however a class action lawsuit against VAG/VW that appears to be making some progress.

But yes it is ironic that VAG group drivers have to pay up all over.
It will be interesting to see if charging fees become brand specific in future though.
Again without regulation and enforcement you could absolutely see VW getting preferential rates from Ionity over other brands at some point in future.