A tesla for grandma

[divesturner]

I have elderly parents with deteriorating driving skill. My #1 reason for holding an M III reservation is the hope that then self driving capabilities of AP on HW2 will help them to stay mobile. There is the question about the full self driving ability of the system when M III is available, but also the reticence of older folks to sit peacefully as a car drives itself. Necessity may force them to accept this, but I also wonder if there could be a hybrid mode where the car babysits the driver and overcomes the drivers slowing reaction time.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Hmmmm.... I think you should only even consider that course of action once full autonomous driving is available.

Until then, the driver should be fully capable of driving the car themselves in the event of something unexpected happening which AP can't deal with.

I know it's a difficult subject as the elderly want to remain independent as long as they can, but you have to think of other road users.

 

[kort677]

you are unwise to think that AP in it's current state would be useful to people who have limited driving capabilities.
AP is an aide to driving, it is not autonomous driving.
you'd be putting these people and everyone else on the road in danger if you allowed them to believe that the AP currently available can drive for them.
maybe in a few years (5-10) your idea would be viable but it isn't a good idea now.

 

[divesturner]

The fact of the mater is that folks keep driving as skill steadily deteriorates, and they pose an increasing danger to other road users over the course of a decade or so. I can imagine a system that specifically accounts for the components of driving skill that deteriorate. Reaction time, for instance, deteriorates in people but is also a strength of automated systems. Automatic emergency braking is already a step in this direction. The question is whether there are next steps that would build on the available assistance.

Full self driving would be great, for sure.

 

[divesturner]

you are unwise to think that AP in it's current state would be useful to people who have limited driving capabilities.
AP is an aide to driving, it is not autonomous driving.
you'd be putting these people and everyone else on the road in danger if you allowed them to believe that the AP currently available can drive for them.
maybe in a few years (5-10) your idea would be viable but it isn't a good idea now.

I'm talking about autopilot on hardware 2, after the system has been developed to level 4. Agree that current generation AP requires a skilled operator.

 

[kort677]

I'm talking about autopilot on hardware 2, after the system has been developed to level 4. Agree that current generation AP requires a skilled operator.

you're in fantasy land. despite all the fluffy hype the reality is that Full autonomous driving is years if not decades away.

 

[divesturner]

you're in fantasy land. despite all the fluffy hype the reality is that Full autonomous driving is years if not decades away.

We will learn a lot this year as they try to turn hardware 2 miles into self driving capabilities. Should be pretty clear by the time early reservations get the nod to configure.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I agree with kort677. We're much further away from fully autonomous driving than a lot of people might like to think.

Even when it becomes technically possible, there will be all sorts of perception and moral issues to overcome before it would be acceptable for the majority of existing drivers to want to share the roads with self driving vehicles.

If you think there's a fuss made now about accidents where AP was enabled, just wait until there's one involving a self driving car and don't think it won't happen.

 

[electracity]

I have elderly parents with deteriorating driving skill. My #1 reason for holding an M III reservation is the hope that then self driving capabilities of AP on HW2 will help them to stay mobile. There is the question about the full self driving ability of the system when M III is available, but also the reticence of older folks to sit peacefully as a car drives itself. Necessity may force them to accept this, but I also wonder if there could be a hybrid mode where the car babysits the driver and overcomes the drivers slowing reaction time.

I agree that your need is perhaps a decade too soon. But Tesla today can already help older but generally competent drivers.

I have an elderly relative who is still pretty sharp and generally competent in driving. His problem area is backing and certain cross traffic situations. Tesla is probably a good choice for this sort of driver. But an elderly person who is increasingly confused and unaware needs to be in a vehicle that does not require a human with a driver's license.

Determining where parents fits on this spectrum is difficult.

 

[Snerruc]

As a 77 year old, I am far more worried about you guys texting while driving. No accidents in 20 + years and 300,000+ miles. Everyone I see running a stoplight or passing illegally is way younger than me and my friends.

 

[divesturner]

As a 77 year old, I am far more worried about you guys texting while driving. No accidents in 20 + years and 300,000+ miles. Everyone I see running a stoplight or passing illegally is way younger than me and my friends.

Great point. A little autopilot babysitter for millenisls would also be welcome. Disturbing to see how many people are looking at something other than the road when driving.

 

[22522]

As a 77 year old, I am far more worried about you guys texting while driving. No accidents in 20 + years and 300,000+ miles. Everyone I see running a stoplight or passing illegally is way younger than me and my friends.

It is way easier to help a driver that goes a bit too deep into a corner and perhaps provide some navigational assistance (good GPS functionality with a guiding head up display) than get an irresponsible person to not run over other people.

A Tesla Model 3 could provide both of these functions on day 1.

Tell it desired peak acceleration (lateral, forward and backward would have a natural default... Maybe it could learn by looking at head motion- use head motion with some comfort parameter, say +/- 1.5 inches as an occupant specific (this is comfortable) accelerometer).

Anyway, what the OP is asking for is reasonable on day one for the Model 3. The plan is also reasonable with very low risk. My experience with that generation is that they at the very least understand liability.

What you want is an agreed path and comfortable acceleration corner assist.

The user interface is agreement on destination before the vehicle moves. You drive. It remembers to brake on time and apply turn signals and lane positioning to be a good citizen.

 

[tander]

I have elderly parents with deteriorating driving skill. My #1 reason for holding an M III reservation is the hope that then self driving capabilities of AP on HW2 will help them to stay mobile. There is the question about the full self driving ability of the system when M III is available, but also the reticence of older folks to sit peacefully as a car drives itself. Necessity may force them to accept this, but I also wonder if there could be a hybrid mode where the car babysits the driver and overcomes the drivers slowing reaction time.

I'm in the same boat. My one remaining Grandmother is getting to the point where she shouldn't be driving much. After seeing how not being able to drive affected other Grandparents (for their generation cars were such a big point of "freedom") health, I would love to see here in one or something like it, the onset of self-driving might be just in time. The added benefit is could take some of the load off any caregivers.

 

[tander]

you're in fantasy land. despite all the fluffy hype the reality is that Full autonomous driving is years if not decades away.

We will learn a lot this year as they try to turn hardware 2 miles into self driving capabilities. Should be pretty clear by the time early reservations get the nod to configure.

I agree with kort677. We're much further away from fully autonomous driving than a lot of people might like to think.

Even when it becomes technically possible, there will be all sorts of perception and moral issues to overcome before it would be acceptable for the majority of existing drivers to want to share the roads with self driving vehicles.

If you think there's a fuss made now about accidents where AP was enabled, just wait until there's one involving a self driving car and don't think it won't happen.

My understanding is Tesla's goal is get there within the next year or two. Musk is on record saying there will be a publicity stunt this year of a car driving autonomously from coast to coast, although that will probably only be less complicated freeway driving.

As is already happened it will be an evolution not a giant step change, and once it's available I'm not sure there will be as much of a moral or perception thing as you might expect. It's been in the news for years now, and it won't be available until there is undeniable statistical evidence (that's part of why they need so many miles driven/recorded) that it makes the car safer than a human can possibly be. Will there be accidents with self-driving cars? Almost certainly, but they will in all or most cases be much more minor compared to if a human were behind the wheel. Volvo has a goal of no more fatalities in their vehicles by 2020, I'm guessing (and hoping) Tesla or someone else will get there first.

 

[Snerruc]

I'm in the same boat. My one remaining Grandmother is getting to the point where she shouldn't be driving much. After seeing how not being able to drive affected other Grandparents (for their generation cars were such a big point of "freedom") health, I would love to see here in one or something like it, the onset of self-driving might be just in time. The added benefit is could take some of the load off any caregivers.

One day you too will be in that boat.

 

[NikeWings]

Regardless of how near FSD might really be, there hasn't been any relinqusihment of requiring a drivers license by the DMV to sit behind the wheel. For now anyway, if one can not pass a driving test, its unclear how they would legally operate a FSD.

But that's another beauty of ridesharing. Its here and its now. Our elderly generation (and us) can remain mobile and independent, and not deal with the cost/maintenance of full ownership. Conceptually probably a difficult trade given ownership ushered in life changing impacts, but once rideshare is used, it will be very much appreciated.

 

[tander]

One day you too will be in that boat.

I hope so! I want to be driving and skiing then, if we even still have cars! To be clear, I wasn't saying that I have deemed that my Grandmother shouldn't be driving (she doesn't need me to govern her), she is very independent and will make that decision for herself when it is time. She already avoids driving at night and on unfamiliar roads, and has watched my now passed Grandpa and many of their friends drive at times when they really shouldn't. Before he had a cell phone, my Grandpa was having a major heart attack at a homesite he was building. What did he do? He lit a cigarette and drove home!

Regardless of how near FSD might really be, there hasn't been any relinqusihment of requiring a drivers license by the DMV to sit behind the wheel. For now anyway, if one can not pass a driving test, its unclear how they would legally operate a FSD.

But that's another beauty of ridesharing. Its here and its now. Our elderly generation (and us) can remain mobile and independent, and not deal with the cost/maintenance of full ownership. Conceptually probably a difficult trade given ownership ushered in life changing impacts, but once rideshare is used, it will be very much appreciated.

The hard part for them seems to be using smartphones and apps! I gave my Grandma an iPhone a couple years ago, thinking maybe she could Uber and FaceTime etc., but last time I heard it was in a drawer somewhere. Unfortunately she lives in a smaller town and I'm not sure if they even have Uber yet. My 93 year old Grandpa on the other was always very tech savvy (he had a cell phone in the 80's and according to legend was a beta tester for the first car air conditioner back in the 50s60s?), but he just can't seem to figure out touchscreens.

 

[NikeWings]

The hard part for them seems to be using smartphones and apps! I gave my Grandpa an iPhone a coupe years ago, thinking maybe she could Uber and FaceTime etc., but last time I heard it was in a drawer somewhere. Unfortunately she lives in a smaller town and I'm not sure if they even have Uber yet. My 93 year old Grandpa on the other was always very tech savvy (he had a cell phone in the 80's, but he just can't seem to figure out touchscreens.

Its a heartbreaking stage and I applaude your quest. Hopefully there are many more of you walking the planet because there fore the grace of God, go I and everyone else..

Regarding the infiltration of tech in our lives.......I was so impressed with how my own parents adapted before they passed. No fear, tons of curiosity and an attitude of 'lets take this apart and see how it works" until it indeed hits a point where its just so overwhelming ......today's 90+ bare grew up with electricty much less everday uses of AI and deep learning.

While it may be the greatest generation in terms of character, contribution and modern advancement, its also the most challenging generation to bridge the full adaptation to technology-driven lives. Without doubt though, they spent decades admitably living beyong themselves and we owe it to them to find interim solutions. FSD can't get here quick enough.

 

[Snerruc]

Its a heartbreaking stage and I applaude your quest. Hopefully there are many more of you walking the planet because there fore the grace of God, go I and everyone else..

Regarding the infiltration of tech in our lives.......I was so impressed with how my own parents adapted before they passed. No fear, tons of curiosity and an attitude of 'lets take this apart and see how it works" until it indeed hits a point where its just so overwhelming ......today's 90+ bare grew up with electricty much less everday uses of AI and deep learning.

While it may be the greatest generation in terms of character, contribution and modern advancement, its also the most challenging generation to bridge the full adaptation to technology-driven lives. Without doubt though, they spent decades admitably living beyong themselves and we owe it to them to find interim solutions. FSD can't get here quick enough.

Perhaps we see what has been lost with all this technology.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Given the recent news, a Performance model from Tesla's line-up would probably be the most suitable for grandma.