A Vent.....thanks for listening

[Roentgen]

@JuneP: I think the tone of your initial question was maybe what he had issue with. It was an honest question, but on the internets can sometimes come across as a snarky rhetorical question.

My stance on the whole issue is: If you don't have the infrastructure to support a purchase, you should really reconsider the reason for the purchase, or at least delay it until it is more practical. In your case, you may have to do some creative problem solving but it looks like you can make it work.

Driving a Tesla without a way to charge at home seems a bit crippling in terms of convenience. It's so easy to just plug it in at night and then drive around all day, without having to plan a side trip (and time) to charge. And I would also be super frustrated if locals abused a supercharger to the point it interferes with the reason it was built.

 

[hiroshiy]

It sounds like if you don't own a house and there is no option to charge at your apartment due to limitations then you shouldn't buy a Tesla, right?

Or is there way to regularly charge somewhere local without hogging a resource?

Generally speaking I think you are correct that owning EVs including Tesla requires home charging. However Tesla clearly wants to sell cars to apartment dwellers in Japan and HK, plus some city areas, thus they decided to put Superchargers in such locations. Tokyo has three (3) Superchargers in less than 7 miles distance, and another one is 24 miles away.

So some people require local charging because Tesla said you can charge locally at the Superchargers even if you don't have home charging.

That said, us Tesla owners also need to be considerate of other long distance users and the basic concept of Superchargers, that they are for long distance travel. Locals who need to charge at Superchargers can adjust the time to charge, and there are many L2 slower choices in city.

 

[X Fan]

Generally speaking I think you are correct that owning EVs including Tesla requires home charging. However Tesla clearly wants to sell cars to apartment dwellers in Japan and HK, plus some city areas, thus they decided to put Superchargers in such locations. Tokyo has three (3) Superchargers in less than 7 miles distance, and another one is 24 miles away.

So some people require local charging because Tesla said you can charge locally at the Superchargers even if you don't have home charging.

That said, us Tesla owners also need to be considerate of other long distance users and the basic concept of Superchargers, that they are for long distance travel. Locals who need to charge at Superchargers can adjust the time to charge, and there are many L2 slower choices in city.

Having spent considerable time in both Tokyo and NY over the last 30 years, I have no doubt that the politeness of Japanese society will ensure that locals cede to long distance travelers.

Fat chance that happens in the Northeast ( Long Island example and ICE’s taking all spots in Tinton Falls, NJ SC ).

 

[Roentgen]

As electric cars become more prevalent, I would expect "home" charging to also become more convenient as modern apt builders would likely take this into account and add outlets (if not charging stations) for apt dwellers/renters. I mean, now that I'm an EV owner, I'm really pleasantly surprised to see charging slots at some of my local shopping centers (not Tesla, but still).

 

[June P]

As I mentioned in the responses I gave already, I was not talking about Superchargers. I was asking what other types of chargers there are for me to use if I buy a tesla and can't charge at an apartment. Singling me out like I'm hellbent on using a Supercharger misdescribes other things I have said in the thread by quoting me out of context.

I hope I have clarified yet again my question for whomever has a suggestion instead of the lectures about supercharger use that Is already established is long distance use oriented.

Generally speaking I think you are correct that owning EVs including Tesla requires home charging. However Tesla clearly wants to sell cars to apartment dwellers in Japan and HK, plus some city areas, thus they decided to put Superchargers in such locations. Tokyo has three (3) Superchargers in less than 7 miles distance, and another one is 24 miles away.

So some people require local charging because Tesla said you can charge locally at the Superchargers even if you don't have home charging.

That said, us Tesla owners also need to be considerate of other long distance users and the basic concept of Superchargers, that they are for long distance travel. Locals who need to charge at Superchargers can adjust the time to charge, and there are many L2 slower choices in city.

 

[commonature]

there will always be abusers if SCs are offered as a free service. with more teslas on the road, this problem can only get worse. one way to get around this may be to implement some sort of system where SCs are no longer free for local drivers within a 20 mi. radius perhaps?

 

[ccutrer]

As I mentioned in the responses I gave already, I was not talking about Superchargers. I was asking what other types of chargers there are for me to use if I buy a tesla and can't charge at an apartment. Singling me out like I'm hellbent on using a Supercharger misdescribes other things I have said in the thread by quoting me out of context.

I hope I have clarified yet again my question for whomever has a suggestion instead of the lectures about supercharger use that Is already established is long distance use oriented.

Check out the PlugShare app. It should show you any public L2 chargers in your area that you can charge at. Most L2 chargers are in the 30A range, so about 16mph of charge time.

 

[Hengist]

As I mentioned in the responses I gave already, I was not talking about Superchargers. I was asking what other types of chargers there are for me to use if I buy a tesla and can't charge at an apartment. Singling me out like I'm hellbent on using a Supercharger misdescribes other things I have said in the thread by quoting me out of context.

I hope I have clarified yet again my question for whomever has a suggestion instead of the lectures about supercharger use that Is already established is long distance use oriented.

The Tesla can happily charge from any J1772 charger. There are tons of these around. An app like plugshare ( plugshare.com) will show them to you. Just find one convenient to work or home. Some are free, some require payment.

A quick look in the Miami area shows more than a hundred of these locations.

 

[June P]

Thanks. I don't live near Miami, unfortunately. I wish Gainesville had lots of places to charge. I will have to learn how long it takes to charge from a J1772 charger. If you have to pay every time you need a charge and I drive a whole lot, it might wind up costing more than gas. I don't have to fill up my gas tank every day.

 

[June P]

I guess I need to go back and relearn the difference in J1772 chargers and a public L2 charger. I do have the Plugshare app on my phone though I guess i need to learn to understand it better.

Check out the PlugShare app. It should show you any public L2 chargers in your area that you can charge at. Most L2 chargers are in the 30A range, so about 16mph of charge time.

 

[June P]

Just noticed the other note -- I am sorry for the misunderstanding, but I didn't snark at anything and I did not ask specifically about the supercharger. I simply took the opportunity of a thread talking about all types of charging for someone in an apartment to ask what to do about that issue before I follow through with buying the tesla I put a deposit on. I wasn't trying to be "funny", but some here are used to humor posts.

This is my first day on the forum and so that should have helped one know I wasn't here as a snarky veteran. It would have been nice to be treated as someone new and trying to learn instead of what I noticed of someone welcoming a question from me with "Dislike" and so forth, as one did. I felt that someone greeting a question from someone new to a forum with a Dislike deserved a few similarly senseless Dislikes in return. One could ask for clarification before instantly starting me here with a negative post reputation just because they were rushing around in a hurry and possibly not reading in their first language. I've never run into that sort of thing anywhere else. I had someone misstate my post to justify his action. This is my first time to visit a place where people insult each other with "Dislike" posts on my first day here when I was trying to ask a sincere question before buying a car.

YES even I know the superchargers are for long distance and I was not talking about those, which I've attempted to clarify three or four times. While I've heard of them, I don't think I have ever seen one and I do not believe there is even one in my area.

I was talking about other chargers and took the opportunity to talk in this thread about the issue because I realized I don't know how I will deal with it when it comes time to decide whether to purchase the car I put money down for in a year or so.

I just want to solve the charging issue before I buy one is the main thing. I also will have to decide how I view electric cars since they still are burning carbon to produce the stored energy in the charger, presumably.

Thanks to all who tried to explain a bit about charging! I guess I need to look up how long it takes to charge up with a regular charger versus a supercharger and learn what to do to get to charge regularly. I don't want to have to tow the car to a charger. I'm not even sure if there are special rules for towing them.

@JuneP: I think the tone of your initial question was maybe what he had issue with. It was an honest question, but on the internets can sometimes come across as a snarky rhetorical question.

My stance on the whole issue is: If you don't have the infrastructure to support a purchase, you should really reconsider the reason for the purchase, or at least delay it until it is more practical. In your case, you may have to do some creative problem solving but it looks like you can make it work.

Driving a Tesla without a way to charge at home seems a bit crippling in terms of convenience. It's so easy to just plug it in at night and then drive around all day, without having to plan a side trip (and time) to charge. And I would also be super frustrated if locals abused a supercharger to the point it interferes with the reason it was built.

 

[June P]

Ok, I could go find out what kind of dryer outlet it is. The apartment was built around 1999 or 2000, I think. But if changing the dryer outlet is required, the complex might not go for that. I would have to also figure out if a Tesla friendly connector will fit it. The nearest Tesla dealer is a couple of hours away. Maybe I'll see if I can find a house I want to buy or build.

The clothes dryer outlet might actually work out well, I think the mobile connector is like 20' long so you could maybe snake it in there. It'd need to be a NEMA 14-50 plug, but I *think* that's fairly common for dryer outlets.

 

[ccutrer]

Just noticed the other note -- I am sorry for the misunderstanding, but I didn't snark at anything and I did not ask specifically about the supercharger. I simply took the opportunity of a thread talking about all types of charging for someone in an apartment to ask what to do about that issue before I follow through with buying the tesla I put a deposit on. I wasn't trying to be "funny", but some here are used to humor posts.

This is my first day on the forum and so that should have helped one know I wasn't here as a snarky veteran. It would have been nice to be treated as someone new and trying to learn instead of what I noticed of someone welcoming a question from me with "Dislike" and so forth, as one did. I felt that someone greeting a question from someone new to a forum with a Dislike deserved a few similarly senseless Dislikes in return. One could ask for clarification before instantly starting me here with a negative post reputation just because they were rushing around in a hurry and possibly not reading in their first language. I've never run into that sort of thing anywhere else. I had someone misstate my post to justify his action. This is my first time to visit a place where people insult each other with "Dislike" posts on my first day here when I was trying to ask a sincere question before buying a car.

YES even I know the superchargers are for long distance and I was not talking about those, which I've attempted to clarify three or four times. While I've heard of them, I don't think I have ever seen one and I do not believe there is even one in my area.

I was talking about other chargers and took the opportunity to talk in this thread about the issue because I realized I don't know how I will deal with it when it comes time to decide whether to purchase the car I put money down for in a year or so.

I just want to solve the charging issue before I buy one is the main thing. I also will have to decide how I view electric cars since they still are burning carbon to produce the stored energy in the charger, presumably.

Thanks to all who tried to explain a bit about charging! I guess I need to look up how long it takes to charge up with a regular charger versus a supercharger and learn what to do to get to charge regularly. I don't want to have to tow the car to a charger. I'm not even sure if there are special rules for towing them.

@June P I really hope your experience improves from such an unwelcoming start. Most people in the forums are at least attempting to be helpful. But some topics can get quite contentious, and at times we should probably look before we dislike, er, leap. And yes, it can be quite difficult to sense the tone in the written word. Honestly, as such a "green" poster fighting back for yourself already, I think you should do fine. Sometimes l laugh at the posts that I get dislikes for. And then I move on.

As for J1772 vs. L2, they're pretty much synonymous. I think L2 technically refers to high voltage (208V+) AC charging, as opposed to L1 (low voltage AC -- a regular 120V outlet) or L3 (high voltage DC -- supercharger or chademo), of which J1772 is one implementation. A home charger (from a 14-30 up through a full 80A Tesla wall connector) is also an L2 charger. From the sounds of it, you're a Model 3 reservation holder. I'll bet that in terms of rated range, the Model 3 will be more efficient, so charging will be shorter to full, or put another way, more miles of range per hour of charging.

One other consideration - if you won't have home charging, you may want to choose the larger battery. That way you can go longer between charges, possibly up to a week or more depending on how much you drive. It'll take longer to get a full charge (on L1 and L2 charging), but you'll go less often. I've also read people that get by with just L1 charging with a Model S. At the least L1 charging at an apartment every night (think adding 30-40 miles per night) can drastically stretch the amount of time before going elsewhere for a full charge. And though Tesla technically won't endorse it, you can get a good 10 gauge extension cord and should be able to reach a plug somewhere, with no real problems.

Anyhow, welcome to the forums, and good luck waiting on your 3. I can't wait for mine!

 

[June P]

Thanks very much. I reserved the car online during the big announcement. I understand I could get the $1k refunded, something like that and it takes a year or more before I could get the Model 3. Hopefully I will have gotten more use out of my 2013 subaru outback limited by then. I may have a hard time switching over, so I'll have to think about it, having had a CRV before this one and being used to being able to put a bike in the lowered backseat or a kayak on top. I've never as yet found the trunk or Frunk either one very efficient looking for storage but hope they will be able to make them so in the future.

I'm used to cars that have some space off the ground at this point, so although I don't offroad my car sometimes I have to go down dirt roads to get to a farm. That might be too hard on a car that is very low to the ground.

@June P I really hope your experience improves from such an unwelcoming start. Most people in the forums are at least attempting to be helpful. But some topics can get quite contentious, and at times we should probably look before we dislike, er, leap. And yes, it can be quite difficult to sense the tone in the written word. Honestly, as such a "green" poster fighting back for yourself already, I think you should do fine. Sometimes l laugh at the posts that I get dislikes for. And then I move on.

As for J1772 vs. L2, they're pretty much synonymous. I think L2 technically refers to high voltage (208V+) AC charging, as opposed to L1 (low voltage AC -- a regular 120V outlet) or L3 (high voltage DC -- supercharger or chademo), of which J1772 is one implementation. A home charger (from a 14-30 up through a full 80A Tesla wall connector) is also an L2 charger. From the sounds of it, you're a Model 3 reservation holder. I'll bet that in terms of rated range, the Model 3 will be more efficient, so charging will be shorter to full, or put another way, more miles of range per hour of charging.

One other consideration - if you won't have home charging, you may want to choose the larger battery. That way you can go longer between charges, possibly up to a week or more depending on how much you drive. It'll take longer to get a full charge (on L1 and L2 charging), but you'll go less often. I've also read people that get by with just L1 charging with a Model S. At the least L1 charging at an apartment every night (think adding 30-40 miles per night) can drastically stretch the amount of time before going elsewhere for a full charge. And though Tesla technically won't endorse it, you can get a good 10 gauge extension cord and should be able to reach a plug somewhere, with no real problems.

Anyhow, welcome to the forums, and good luck waiting on your 3. I can't wait for mine!

 

[oneday]

There is a standard outlet in my garage that is attached to my apartment. I don't think they're going to want me to alter it but I could ask if I knew how to phrase it. There is a clothes dryer outlet in my laundry room next to the garage too; the kitchen is on the other side of that.

The dryer outlet would probably have a 30amp 240v breaker. Depending on what particular outlet it is, you can get an adapter for the Tesla. That way you wake up to a full charge every morning. Take a picture of it and we can tell you if it will work.

Edit: looks like this was mentioned as I was writing this

 

[ccutrer]

Thanks very much. I reserved the car online during the big announcement. I understand I could get the $1k refunded, something like that and it takes a year or more before I could get the Model 3. Hopefully I will have gotten more use out of my 2013 subaru outback limited by then. I may have a hard time switching over, so I'll have to think about it, having had a CRV before this one and being used to being able to put a bike in the lowered backseat or a kayak on top. I've never as yet found the trunk or Frunk either one very efficient looking for storage but hope they will be able to make them so in the future.

I'm used to cars that have some space off the ground at this point, so although I don't offroad my car sometimes I have to go down dirt roads to get to a farm. That might be too hard on a car that is very low to the ground.

I'd suggest starting or joining some threads over in the Model 3 section for these concerns. But, what the heck, we go off topic all the time. The trunk on a Model S, with the seats down, is enormously spacious. People put bikes and other things in it all the time. The Model 3 will naturally be a bit smaller, but the biggest impediment would be the non-hatchback style opening. Elon recently tweeted that they've already addressed a larger trunk opening, so we'll just have to see.

As for ride height and on dirt roads - I've never actually been in a base-model coil suspension Model S. But the air suspension can adjust upwards for this very purpose. There's a mail delivery person in the Midwest that uses a Model S to deliver mail in a rural area every day - you can probably google him to find out if he has air suspension, and if his situation might be close to your hypothetical. Also remember that the bottom of a Tesla is completely different. It's just flat battery pack, with ballistic grade shielding on it. I worry much less about damage down there than I do my other cars where something like a nail flying up could potentially damage a relatively fragile fuel line or something.

 

[June P]

thanks - I'll check out the Model 3 threads. I had forgotten what the model number was as the weeks passed until you mentioned it. I definitely will want the biggest battery I can get due to being a person who drives everywhere and avoids airplanes. My long distance drives is where I would look into the the superchargers, not the home driving, although I worry that I will have a hard time getting the time for the other chargers to keep it charged.

As to the Model S being more SUV-like, the problem with the S, besides the price worrying me about seeming ostenatious, for my needs is that the bird wings would interfere with putting a kayak or ladder on top.

 

[ccutrer]

thanks - I'll check out the Model 3 threads. I had forgotten what the model number was as the weeks passed until you mentioned it. I definitely will want the biggest battery I can get due to being a person who drives everywhere and avoids airplanes. My long distance drives is where I would look into the the superchargers, not the home driving, although I worry that I will have a hard time getting the time for the other chargers to keep it charged.

As to the Model S being more SUV-like, the problem with the S, besides the price worrying me about seeming ostenatious, for my needs is that the bird wings would interfere with putting a kayak or ladder on top.

That would be an X. Which actually has a smaller trunk than the S. And yes, no roof rack for an X. Definitely doesn't seem like an X would be a very good fit for you.

 

[Hengist]

Thanks. I don't live near Miami, unfortunately. I wish Gainesville had lots of places to charge. I will have to learn how long it takes to charge from a J1772 charger. If you have to pay every time you need a charge and I drive a whole lot, it might wind up costing more than gas. I don't have to fill up my gas tank every day.

There are 8 chargers listed in Gainesville. U Florida has two free plugs with a four hour limit, Hampton in. Has two plugs, but parking costs money, BMW of Gainesville has two free plugs, as do Gainesville Nissan and Gainesville Mercedes. Encor biotech has a plug. Magnolia parks has a free plug.

Hope this helps. You can always charge with regular 110 volt wall outlets too. You only get 3 miles range per hour of charge, but that still means 40-50 miles of driving a day.

 

[malcolm]

About a year ago Tesla Sent Out Supercharger Abuse Emails to those SC hoggers. Maybe it's time for some enforcement action from Tesla.

Tesla Sends Out Supercharger Abuse Emails - Model S Owners Not Impressed

Something like -

"If you persist in such overuse of Superchargers, we will remotely downgrade your car's acceleration profile for a period of one day.

Ludicrous will be downgraded to Insane, Insane will be downgraded to non-P, non P will be downgraded to a 6 second 0 to 60.

A reminder message to this effect will appear on the screen when you start the vehicle.

A further period of Supercharger overuse will initiate the same downgrade for two days.

Still further overuse will result in a three day downgrade.

This downgrade can be extended, one day at a time up to a maximum period of one week.

Further overuse of Superchargers will restart the one-day acceleration downgrade - only this time Ludicrous will downgrade to non-P, Insane will downgrade to 6 seconds, non-P will be 7 seconds.

This process can be extended until you are the proud owner of the very first Tesla with the acceleration profile of a 2009 Tata Nano"

Too much?