Adding wall connector to main panel instead of sub panel.. can't see energy usage in app

[tfan2018]

It was something I didn't realize or explained until after installation... now if I charge with wall connector I don't see the usage at all in the app, meaning the home usage will be very off.

Is there a way to add CT to measure the energy usage from the main panel breakers?

The sub panel was only 60A, so I felt it didn't make sense to install the 60A wall connector in the sub panel... but now that I don't see the energy usage, I kind of regret it.

 

[jjrandorin]

Is there a way to add CT to measure the energy usage from the main panel breakers?

This depends on where everything is, so I dont think there is a one size fits all answer. With that being said. my own setup has a CT monitoring the non backed up loads panel, and the only thing in that panel is my wall connectors (and the breaker for the "critical loads" panel that is the rest of the loads of my house).

My main panel is outside on the wall of my garage, and my critical loads panel is on the same wall on the inside of my garage, so its about 3-4 feet apart and was easy for them to do this.

 

[tfan2018]

This depends on where everything is, so I dont think there is a one size fits all answer. With that being said. my own setup has a CT monitoring the non backed up loads panel, and the only thing in that panel is my wall connectors (and the breaker for the "critical loads" panel that is the rest of the loads of my house).

My main panel is outside on the wall of my garage, and my critical loads panel is on the same wall on the inside of my garage, so its about 3-4 feet apart and was easy for them to do this.

When they say them.. are you referring to Tesla? If I want to add CT monitoring to the wall connector breaker, can I do that myself (with some educated DIY or explain what needs to be done to a handy friend), or Tesla has to do it? The sub panel with the critical loads (everything but the wall connector) is next to the main panel.

I do want to see the wall connector (breaker in the main panel) energy usage in the Tesla app.

 

[jjrandorin]

I remember Someone here saying they did it themselves, but I dont know anything about how that would work or be setup. There are a few different threads about non monitored loads in main panel.

 

[h2ofun]

I have 5 wall connectors before my gateways. Yep, I do not see usage. Who cares. I can log into PGE and see daily use. Whether I see or not, the same amount of usage happens.

 

[fholbert]

It was something I didn't realize or explained until after installation... now if I charge with wall connector I don't see the usage at all in the app, meaning the home usage will be very off.

Is there a way to add CT to measure the energy usage from the main panel breakers?

The sub panel was only 60A, so I felt it didn't make sense to install the 60A wall connector in the sub panel... but now that I don't see the energy usage, I kind of regret it.

I’m missing something.

By wall connector I think you mean wall charger?

Doesn‘t matter if you in the main panel, sub-panel or neighbors panel. You should see what the wall charger is using in the phone app. You made a mistake setting it up, or your wall charger can’t see your wireless network.

FWIW, my wall charger is in my main panel. Like you, my sub-panel is 60amp.

 

[jjrandorin]

I’m missing something.

By wall connector I think you mean wall charger?

Doesn‘t matter if you in the main panel, sub-panel or neighbors panel. You should see what the wall charger is using in the phone app. You made a mistake setting it up, or your wall charger can’t see your wireless network.

FWIW, my wall charger is in my main panel. Like you, my sub-panel is 60amp.

Wall connector is the correct term, since the charger is in the car. Its a bit pedantic but someone saying "wall connector" is using the correct term.

Unless you are talking about the stats that come from usage with powerwalls, you are not talking about the same thing this OP is talking about. Do you have solar + powerwalls?

 

[aesculus]

Have Tesla add the CTs. They did it for mine. Note that there are only two breakers in my main panel: the wall connector (charger) and the backed up loads panel. See the CTs on the left breaker (TWC).

 

[tfan2018]

Have Tesla add the CTs. They did it for mine. Note that there are only two breakers in my main panel: the wall connector (charger) and the backed up loads panel. See the CTs on the left breaker (TWC).

View attachment 1000559

is it still possible to have Tesla add the CTs after powerwall/solar installation? I wonder what the cost of the service will be.

 

[aesculus]

is it still possible to have Tesla add the CTs after powerwall/solar installation? I wonder what the cost of the service will be.

It should be easy. Just two clips, a little fishing of wires and plugging in. Is this the only non backed up load you have? If you have another they may need to split the input so both are going into that feed.

I did not catch if you had this WC installed before the PWs? If so Tesla should have done it then. If not, ask them if they could and how much. Otherwise its pretty easy to do for any electrician. Probably 15 minutes.

 

[tfan2018]

It should be easy. Just two clips, a little fishing of wires and plugging in. Is this the only non backed up load you have? If you have another they may need to split the input so both are going into that feed.

I did not catch if you had this WC installed before the PWs? If so Tesla should have done it then. If not, ask them if they could and how much. Otherwise its pretty easy to do for any electrician. Probably 15 minutes.

Yup, this is the only non backed up load--my wall connector. All other circuits are backed up. WC was installed after the power walls. Thanks for the tip, I will reach out to Tesla.

 

[tfan2018]

Good news, I got the CT installed so now I am seeing the wall connector power usage in the Tesla app!

The odd thing is that the circuit is on the main panel, but when I plugged into my car to draw, the Tesla app indicated it was pulling power from my two powerwalls. Not sure how that is possible or what is happening... in fact pulling power from grid but showing it is using power from powerwall, or it is in fact pulling power from the powerwall even though the circuit it installed in the main panel and not sub panel

 

[jjrandorin]

The odd thing is that the circuit is on the main panel, but when I plugged into my car to draw, the Tesla app indicated it was pulling power from my two powerwalls

Thats what getting a CT on a circuit in the main panel will allow. It allows the powerwall(s) to provide power to that load just as if it was in the backup loads panel... when the grid is connected.

If there is no grid connection, then that load wont be available, but when the grid IS connected, it can be served powerwall power. Thats exactly how mine currently is.

 

[BGbreeder]

Good news, I got the CT installed so now I am seeing the wall connector power usage in the Tesla app!

The odd thing is that the circuit is on the main panel, but when I plugged into my car to draw, the Tesla app indicated it was pulling power from my two powerwalls. Not sure how that is possible or what is happening... in fact pulling power from grid but showing it is using power from powerwall, or it is in fact pulling power from the powerwall even though the circuit it installed in the main panel and not sub panel

(What @jjrandorin said! Our messages overlapped.)
This is not how electricity works. Your car "demands" power by placing its load on the wires. Power flows to it from somewhere. Absent a gateway and powerwalls, yes it would come from the grid. When you have a second source of power (ESS / solar) things are not as straightforward, but still pretty simple.

At a microscopic level, the job of the gateway is to keep 120V 50/60Hz on the circuits that it can see. By slightly adjusting the phase of the Powerwall AC, the gateway can either present the Powerwall(s) as a load or a source. So when the gateway detects a load that should be serviced, it will supply that power, and vice versa to charge the Powerwalls.

When there are CTs on the incoming grid wires, the gateway is able to adjust the Powerwall/solar power production so that the amount from the gateway ESS so that the output exactly matches the aggregate site demand, including items not in the essential loads panel, like your car charger on the main service panel. Your grid meter registers neither exports nor imports because you are not pulling any power from the grid, all due to the magic of the power regulation in the gateway.

I would point out that it is somewhat wasteful to put solar into Powerwalls and then back into a vehicle due to the 10% round trip losses, but that is not really your question.

Does that help?

BG

 

[tfan2018]

oh how cool! I really had no idea that’s how it’s supposed to work after adding CT. I thought CT was just simple monitoring but it is so nice that the powerwalls can still charge my car when connected to the grid (which I won’t though, I’ll be charging during on peak hours when there is excess solar)

 

[jjrandorin]

I would point out that it is somewhat wasteful to put solar into Powerwalls and then back into a vehicle due to the 10% round trip losses, but that is not really your question.

After a few months of geeking out and being able to put powerwall power into a non backed up load, and my power "independence" (lol), I went back to scheduling my car charging in the middle of the night, timed pretty much for when my powerwalls are just hitting their reserve, for this specific reason.

It certainly felt good to put powerwall power in the car, but its less efficient. Still, its nice to know I "can" even if i dont normally.

@tfan2018 , im curious how that discussion went with your installer (Tesla?) to get the CTs installed. Did you have to pay extra? if not, was it just included or done as "good will"?

Im just curious because you are not the first person to be in this situation, and I am wondering if there is anything we can gain as far as normal workflow from your situation, if you are willing to share. If not, thats ok too, not trying to be too personal.

 

[tfan2018]

After a few months of geeking out and being able to put powerwall power into a non backed up load, and my power "independence" (lol), I went back to scheduling my car charging in the middle of the night, timed pretty much for when my powerwalls are just hitting their reserve, for this specific reason.

It certainly felt good to put powerwall power in the car, but its less efficient. Still, its nice to know I "can" even if i dont normally.

@tfan2018 , im curious how that discussion went with your installer (Tesla?) to get the CTs installed. Did you have to pay extra? if not, was it just included or done as "good will"?

Im just curious because you are not the first person to be in this situation, and I am wondering if there is anything we can gain as far as normal workflow from your situation, if you are willing to share. If not, thats ok too, not trying to be too personal.

I texted the installer that came to my house to install my Powerwall expansion last month and explained the situation. I asked him directly to provide a quote for parts and labor and scheduled a visit. I had to pay extra, but it was worth it without having to go thru the pain of getting formal tesla support, and I’ll likely have to pay for someone to come out for a service visit regardless. The installer should be paid for his time and effort, so I was ok with paying for addition of the CT monitoring, and having a tesla app with a complete view of the energy flow is totally worth it to me. Even though the energy usage is the same whether or not it’s included in the energy flow view, it was something I wanted to see and monitor and makes it easier to control my NBCs.

 

[jjrandorin]

I texted the installer that came to my house to install my Powerwall expansion last month and explained the situation. I asked him directly to provide a quote for parts and labor and scheduled a visit. I had to pay extra, but it was worth it without having to go thru the pain of getting formal tesla support, and I’ll likely have to pay for someone to come out for a service visit regardless. The installer should be paid for his time and effort, so I was ok with paying for addition of the CT monitoring, and having a tesla app with a complete view of the energy flow is totally worth it to me. Even though the energy usage is the same whether or not it’s included in the energy flow view, it was something I wanted to see and monitor and makes it easier to control my NBCs.

Appreciate the detail and I agree with you. I made friends with my Tesla installer and when I got another vehicle, I had him come out and install the second wall connector and set it up in power sharing for me.

This was not "Tesla work" but I was comfortable with him knowing exactly what needed to be done, since he was an experienced (5 years installing tesla powerwalls and electrical setups for them) installer. it was worth it to me, and I didnt even attempt to get another bid nor call Tesla. Completely happy with it, and what I paid felt fair to me for their time and expertise and I got exactly what I wanted.

I just share that to say "me too" (lol).

 

[aesculus]

Good news, I got the CT installed so now I am seeing the wall connector power usage in the Tesla app!

The odd thing is that the circuit is on the main panel, but when I plugged into my car to draw, the Tesla app indicated it was pulling power from my two powerwalls. Not sure how that is possible or what is happening... in fact pulling power from grid but showing it is using power from powerwall, or it is in fact pulling power from the powerwall even though the circuit it installed in the main panel and not sub panel

Do you have a period (TOU?) that your Powerwalls don't supply power? I only charge my car during off peak periods and only grid power is provided.

 

[tfan2018]

Do you have a period (TOU?) that your Powerwalls don't supply power? I only charge my car during off peak periods and only grid power is provided.

Yup I’m on TOU plan. When I was testing whether the CT worked it was already part peak, so I inadvertently discovered that’s how it is supposed to work described in post #18.