Alberta imposing $200 EV tax starting in 2025

[wayner]

Not wanting to be out anti-woked by Saskatchewan, Alberta is going to implement an EV tax of $200 starting next year. Saskatchewan has had an EV tax since 2021.

The heavy truth about EVs - The Logic

Our cars and trucks have been getting heavier. EV makers are trying to change that.

thelogic.co

 

[LoudMusic]

Is that a tax or a registration fee? We have a $200 registration fee on top of normal vehicle registration fees in Arkansas. It's to cover lost revenue from gas sales.

 

[wayner]

From the story. FYI, the government in Alberta is very right wing, they recently paused approval of new wind and solar projects until they could figure out a framework for remediation of such sites after they reach the end of their useful life. Meanwhile Alberta has thousands of abandoned oil and gas wells.

In response to The Logic’s questions, Alberta Finance spokesperson Savannah Johannsen said taxes on EVs are “commonplace” and help the province raise revenues on drivers that don’t pay fuel taxes.

 

[Soul Surfer]

Big surprise coming from the most oil rich province. Gee, I wonder who is pulling (read: paying off) the political strings?

 

[HarleyW]

Not wanting to be out anti-woked by Saskatchewan, Alberta is going to implement an EV tax of $200 starting next year. Saskatchewan has had an EV tax since 2021.

The heavy truth about EVs - The Logic

Our cars and trucks have been getting heavier. EV makers are trying to change that.

thelogic.co

Should be an announcement from Ontario soon. Don't blame them, evs don' pay any road use tax and weigh considerably more which is also harder on the roads.

 

[rypalmer]

and weigh considerably more which is also harder on the roads.

Yeah like 10% more.

 

[wayner]

They also don't pollute at the tailpipe, either CO2 or other types of pollutants. That should be promoted.

When you buy electricity in Ontario you are paying HST so both levels of government are getting some revenue, albeit less than from gasoline.

They are a bit heavier, but not necessarily compared to pickup trucks or SUVs. It depends on what the EV displaces.

 

[UncleCreepy]

Don't blame them, evs don' pay any road use tax and weigh considerably more which is also harder on the roads

Not enough to matter. According to Fourth power law - Wikipedia. , the road stress ratio of truck to car is 10,000 to 1.

 

[HarleyW]

They also don't pollute at the tailpipe, either CO2 or other types of pollutants. That should be promoted.

When you buy electricity in Ontario you are paying HST so both levels of government are getting some revenue, albeit less than from gasoline.

They are a bit heavier, but not necessarily compared to pickup trucks or SUVs. It depends on what the EV displaces.

Why would anyone compare a mid size sedan to a pickup truck? Model 3 is 17% heavier than a honda accord, which is also a larger vehicle. And I also can't see why C02 has anything to do with road use taxes.

 

[ReddyKW]

Compare Ford Edge to Model Y, only 30 lbs heavier, very comparable vehicles is size and function.

 

[Lon12]

Why would anyone compare a mid size sedan to a pickup truck? Model 3 is 17% heavier than a honda accord, which is also a larger vehicle. And I also can't see why C02 has anything to do with road use taxes.

Alberta "road use" fuel tax goes into general revenue. They can use it for whatever they want. Like maybe giving the oil companies more subsidies? It would be more palatable if I knew it was going to fix our potholes. I've read Alberta will take in only about $1M worth of road use tax from the EV community this year. That isn't even enough to pave one kilometre of new road. I can't help but think this has more to do with the current governments oil company backing. EVs don't help us increase oil consumption.

I will say thought that we have some of the best maintained roads in the country. Would be interesting to see the road expense numbers comparing us to other provinces.

"Some subsidies are federal and some provincial. A recent report from the International Institute for Sustainable Development (IISD) on provincial fossil fuel subsidies estimated B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland and Labrador together provided at least $2.5 billion in provincial fossil fuel subsidies in the 2020/2021 fiscal year. A previous IISD report found federal fossil fuel subsidies amounted to $1.9 billion in 2020."

 

[wayner]

Why would anyone compare a mid size sedan to a pickup truck? Model 3 is 17% heavier than a honda accord, which is also a larger vehicle. And I also can't see why C02 has anything to do with road use taxes.

Look at the most popular vehicles being sold in North America. The F150 and Model 3/Y are both up there. Most buyers of an F150 don't need a pickup, a Model 3/Y provides as much utility as a truck.

What does CO2 have to do with road taxes? Pricing negative externalities like forms of pollution. When they aren't priced by the market the government should attempt to establish a price to discourage these negative externalities. That is what the carbon tax is, but that has become a big political football in Canada with the Liberal government F'ing up their carbon tax by starting to make exceptions.

 

[KevinT3141]

Compare Ford Edge to Model Y, only 30 lbs heavier, very comparable vehicles is size and function.

Yup, our Model Y is only 400 lbs heavier than the Santa Fe XL it replaced, that's like 2.5 passengers. Maybe Alberta should charge an extra $80 per year for each kid in your family...

 

[StrykerFoxx]

Yup, our Model Y is only 400 lbs heavier than the Santa Fe XL it replaced, that's like 2.5 passengers. Maybe Alberta should charge an extra $80 per year for each kid in your family...

Maybe every car should have the ability to report the combined weight of all its passengers + cargo, and relay it over the air to the government so that they can tax us based on it.

 

[HarleyW]

Maybe every car should have the ability to report the combined weight of all its passengers + cargo, and relay it over the air to the government so that they can tax us based on it.

Don't give them any suggestions. I expect that exact situation will happen with milage eventually.

But as for the lack of road tax for ev's, if you really thought they would not tax you for using the road you need a head shake.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Yeah like 10% more.

My EV's curb weight is about 25% more than the equivalent gasser. (Kona) But that's a subcompact.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Compare Ford Edge to Model Y, only 30 lbs heavier, very comparable vehicles is size and function.

Only 20k sales per year max in Canada for the Edge. While it's close to the Model Y in sales, not really the best alternative comparison overall
Top non-pick-ups in Canada were:
RAV-4, 75,688: max 3,640 lbs, hybrid max 3,800 lbs
CR-V, 53,130: max 3,635 lbs, hybrid max 3,926 lbs
Model Y AWD: 4,363 lbs

It's a good 700lb heavier than the most popular gasoline vehicle with comparable cargo space, making the curb weight very close to 20% more.
Percentage difference is less, of course, once you add people and cargo.

It should, however, be noted that the weight difference of various light vehicles might really not be significant for road wear. But it could be political difficult for a government to say that given that they'd be openly admitting that fuel taxes suck for road pricing.

 

[GNFO]

Don't give them any suggestions. I expect that exact situation will happen with milage eventually.

But as for the lack of road tax for ev's, if you really thought they would not tax you for using the road you need a head shake.

I think they were more taking exception to your claim of "weigh considerably more". They may be on average slightly more, but not even close to all the crying in the media. I thought my Model X was heavy (and it is), but I looked up the weight of the ICE BMW X6 and Mercedes GLE 450, which are comparable body types (with less internal volume I might add), and the Model X is in the same weight range as the BMW and only 150lbs heavier than the Mercedes. At worst a 3% difference. Modern cars are just heavier in general. I think a Model 3 is about 400 lbs heavier than a Toyota Camry, and the Model 3 has slightly more cargo volume.

The issue with the additional amount for EV's in registration fees is two-fold:

1) as others mentioned, your electricity is already taxed. It's true that those taxes are probably earmarked differently, but that's not our fault and the effect is that we are being taxed twice. The government's tax structure needs to change.
2) the way (at least here in Virginia) the additional amount is figured is flawed. It makes assumptions of equivalent MPG efficiency and yearly miles that can't possibly be the same for every driver and every type of EV out there. For my miles driven, I'm actually paying more than if I were paying taxes on gas.

The amount you pay in gas taxes is at least loosely coupled to your usage, while the EV fee is not. Here in Virginia they are experimenting with a mileage-based fee if you opt for it, but for Teslas that means you have to give them access to your vehicle data. Yep, account login information. That's not happening. They were surprised when I told them that if that information got in the wrong hands you could actually track or even steal the car. What really kills me is that all cars already have to get annual safety inspections where the mileage is logged, so why not just use that? The answer - different state organization is in charge of that program so they can't use it (or don't want to be bothered to make the systems talk to each other).

 

[Steven H]

Should be an announcement from Ontario soon. Don't blame them, evs don' pay any road use tax and weigh considerably more which is also harder on the roads.

This is unfortunate ignorance of the distribution of the collection of taxes and the effect of electric vehicles on the roads. I don't mean to be rude, but any stripe of government that votes for a tax on electric vehicle should be voted out of office.

 

[Braumin]

Should be an announcement from Ontario soon. Don't blame them, evs don' pay any road use tax and weigh considerably more which is also harder on the roads.

This is always the argument and it is poor for more than one reason.

The "road tax" is just a tax that goes into general revenue. It's not actually used for roads exclusively, nor is/was it ever enough to cover the costs of roads.

EVs, especially right now, cost more upfront than an ICE car, and with Alberta having a 5% PST they are getting this "road tax" upfront. Will that always be the case? No, but it is the case right now. If ICE and EV get to price parity, maybe then they could look into additional taxes for EVs, but we are not there yet.

EVs do weigh more than an exact replica car, and some are ridiculous like the Hummer EV, but a Model 3 weighs about the same as a Toyota Camry so whatever.

Both Alberta and Saskatchewan also offer reduced tax fuel for farmers, loggers, and other industry. You know who does more damage to a highway than my Model 3? A Super B trailer full of wheat. But they pay no "road tax" (or reduced in the case of Alberta). So if it was truly about the roads, these industries would pay tax on the fuel because they damage the roads, but they do not.

This is a money grab and a dog whistle at the same time. Everyone knows it. There is no sneakiness here. Alberta makes a lot of money off oil and gas, and are currently against anything that might disrupt that industry.

Also, there are cost savings long term with EVs. Climate change costs money. Ignoring that, while typical in Alberta/Sask, will cost money and already does.