All discussion of Lucid Motors

[RobStark]

How many times have we seen better technology failing against the competition due to a lack of ability to scale with high production cost? Someone should teach him the word BALANCE and not just pick a hill to die on. This is why I feel like this CEO needs to go ASAP.

Many more times we have seen companies fail because they don't have a competitive advantage.

There is balance. Lucid isn't trying to make their own cells or cell technology.

Lucid isn't trying to make their own FSD software.

Peter took a company making battery packs for Formula E to an automaker delivering product with large backorder with a market cap of $34B.

He is far from being fired.

 

[ggr]

Many more times we have seen companies fail because they don't have a competitive advantage.

There is balance. Lucid isn't trying to make their own cells or cell technology.

Lucid isn't trying to make their own FSD software.

Peter took a company making battery packs for Formula E to an automaker delivering product with large backorder with a market cap of $34B.

He is far from being fired.

I thought it was Faraday Future that was making the Formula-E packs?

 

[juanmedina]

Lucid probably has more Pure orders than anything else and if the EV bill passes they will lose the $7500 credit. I wonder how that will affect their order log? Grandfathered early orders of the Pure are a great deal specially with the credit IMO.

 

[RobStark]

I thought it was Faraday Future that was making the Formula-E packs?

No it was/is Atieva/Lucid Group that makes Formula E packs.

I know Formula E recently added McLaren Applied Technologies. Don't know if they are exclusive or if Atieva/Lucid Group still make some packs.

Edit Googled Faraday Future Formula E. FF had a deal with Dragon Racing to supply packs but seems it never game to fruition.

 

[RobStark]

Lucid probably has more Pure orders than anything else and if the EV bill passes they will lose the $7500 credit. I wonder how that will affect their order log? Grandfathered early orders of the Pure are a great deal specially with the credit IMO.

The new price for Lucid Air Pure is $87,400 and has 406 miles of range.

Model S is $104,990 and has 405 miles of range. And just opened up for European orders for the first time in almost 2 years.

 

[StealthP3D]

Chicago auto detailer/PPF installer and Model 3 owner inspects a customer's Lucid Air GT.

Not great not horrible. For a car somewhere between 500-1000 produced by a new manufacture.

The detailer doesn't know what he's talking about when he says there are a wide variety of automotive paints used by different manufacturers and some of it is a lot softer and others are much harder. They all use a water-based polyurethane, and while there are a bunch of different ways to apply and layer it, it's all quite similar in hardness. The difference he is noting is almost certainly due to cure time. The paint continues to cure and get harder with time and age. Those micro-scratches he's pointing out likely happened very soon after the car came out of the paint shop when the paint was still soft. However, even the best fully hardened paint will scratch like that if there is a sufficiently hard abrasive rubbed on the surface.

I'm not trying to defend Lucid but Tesla had all the same BS lobbed at them for much the same reasons. In the end, it's a big nothing burger. Paint hardens, it can be polished, and everything is fine.

 

[MP3Mike]

Many more times we have seen companies fail because they don't have a competitive advantage.

Here comes our resident competitor apologist to spread misinformation...

There is balance. Lucid isn't trying to make their own cells or cell technology.

Really? Lucid And Tesla Battle On Battery Tech: Electric Car Battery Range Reaches Gas Sedans Like Honda Accord

Rawlinson:

“We're using cylindrical cells that are state of the art with a cell chemistry that we've co-developed and an internal architecture that we've co-developed. So these are not just run of the mill 21700 cylindrical cells, they're designed specifically with our performance criterion in mind.

Lucid isn't trying to make their own FSD software.

Really? BYD, Lucid adopt Nvidia’s self-driving toolkit – TechCrunch

At the same conference, Lucid revealed that its DreamDrive Pro ADAS is built on the Nvidia Drive platform. Every Lucid Air sedan that’s on the road today features an Nvidia SoC integrated into Lucid’s ADAS, but the automaker is still using its in-house software stack, which relies on a suite of 14 cameras, one lidar, five radars and 12 ultrasonic sensors for automated driving and intelligent cockpit features. Lucid plans to further collaborate with Nvidia on future products, but is not disclosing more details at this time.

Ok, they don't call it FSD, it is just an ADAS...

And look at that they want $10k for their future FSD like system:

Of course the only feature they list that you currently get for that $10k is surround view/blind spot monitoring.

 

[juanmedina]

The new price for Lucid Air Pure is $87,400 and has 406 miles of range.

Model S is $104,990 and has 405 miles of range. And just opened up for European orders for the first time in almost 2 years.

$96,900 is the cheapest comparable Lucid Pure AWD that you can build with a metal roof right now. My early Pure AWD reservation with the $7500 credit would be $77,000.

 

[MP3Mike]

That's almost exactly equal to their Q2 ASP, so at least they are not "losing money on every car they make".

But they are actually losing money on every car they make right now. If they double or triple their volume they might not lose as much per vehicle, or could even go profitable.

If I recall correctly Tesla only lost money, on a gross basis, for their vehicles in a single quarter since they started Model S production.

 

[Singuy]

Many more times we have seen companies fail because they don't have a competitive advantage.

There is balance. Lucid isn't trying to make their own cells or cell technology.

Lucid isn't trying to make their own FSD software.

Peter took a company making battery packs for Formula E to an automaker delivering product with large backorder with a market cap of $34B.

He is far from being fired.

They have the low hanging fruit (everything is ICE) competitive advantage from a decade ago but instead they went all out. Lucid is 4 years younger than Tesla, and yet they squandered all of this time away to have a "competitive advantage" over Tesla who used their time to build out an entire charging infrastructure, service stations, and multiple millions of cars. Lucid would very easily have been Polestar.

 

[RobStark]

$96,900 is the cheapest comparable Lucid Pure AWD that you can build with a metal roof right now. My early Pure AWD reservation with the $7500 credit would be $77,000.

The lower price of entry should still generate volume. Even if not "comparable."

 

[MP3Mike]

The new price for Lucid Air Pure is $87,400 and has 406 miles of range.

Of course you can't reserve one with that price. The lowest price you can currently configure is $91,400. (They require you to opt for the $4k sound system upgrade.) Who knows if they will ever actually offer a base sound system.

 

[RobStark]

Here comes our resident competitor apologist to spread misinformation...



Really? Lucid And Tesla Battle On Battery Tech: Electric Car Battery Range Reaches Gas Sedans Like Honda Accord





Really? BYD, Lucid adopt Nvidia’s self-driving toolkit – TechCrunch



Ok, they don't call it FSD, it is just an ADAS...

They have their own battery pack technology. They are buying off the shelf Samsung and LG cells.


They have ADAS and plan to offer Level 3.

But they are not writing their own software. They are buying it/licensing it from suppliers.

Another resident hater.

 

[RobStark]

Of course you can't reserve one with that price. The lowest price you can currently configure is $91,400. (They require you to opt for the $4k sound system upgrade.) Who knows if they will ever actually offer a base sound system.

You can say that about base Cybertruck, base R1T or any number of vehicles.

 

[RobStark]

They have the low hanging fruit (everything is ICE) competitive advantage from a decade ago but instead they went all out. Lucid is 4 years younger than Tesla, and yet they squandered all of this time away to have a "competitive advantage" over Tesla who used their time to build out an entire charging infrastructure, service stations, and multiple millions of cars. Lucid would very easily have been Polestar.

Peter became CTO of Atieva in 2013.

And CEO in 2019.

How long Lucid spent in the wilderness as a battery pack company is irrelevant to LCID investors today.

Peter's performance as CEO will be judged when he started making the decisions. Not when he was CTO taking orders.

 

[MP3Mike]

They have their own battery pack technology. They are buying off the shelf Samsung and LG cells.

The article I linked to specifically quotes Rawlinson saying that they co-developed the cell chemistry and internal architecture and that they are not just run of the mill, i.e. off the shelf, cells. Or are you saying that Rawlinson lied when he said that? (Which would be a really bad look for them, that would put him up there with Trevor Milton taking credit for things they aren't doing.)

But they are not writing their own software. They are buying it/licensing it from suppliers.

Again, that article I linked to specifically mentions that they are using the Nvidia SDK but developing their own software in-house.

Where is your proof that they aren't?

Another resident hater.

I don't hate them. I think they have done some really good things, especially around efficiency. But I'm not afraid of calling them out on their problems.

 

[Mengy]

Another resident hater.

Rob, criticism does not equal hate. Just sayin.

MP3Mike makes some valid points in my opinion, and if I was a LCID investor I'd be extremely concerned right now.

 

[Todd Burch]

Well they are too busy making sure every panel is aligned by hand.

Lucid: Vows to make sure every car is 100% perfect just to separate themselves from Tesla
Lucid: Goes bankrupt during the process

I know you’re joking, but there’s a lot of truth to this.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good. Elon recognized early on that using all of the best materials, having super fancy designs, taking the time to perfect everything you can, and splurging on what people think of traditionally as “luxury” can be the kiss of death for a fledgling automaker looking to move to higher volume.

Rivian made a similar mistake IMO in having too many products/variants in work before trying to ramp up its first product.

It’s the mistake that Lucid made early on, and I think Elon tried to warn Rawlinson. Time will tell if it spells the end of Lucid. (With Saudi backing, I suspect more money will just be pumped into it).

 

[Electroman]

Warren Redlich as usual is a little fast and lose with facts and truth. He is accusing CEO Rawlinson of losing confidence with the company and selling a huge stake to make some quick bucks and reducing his ownership substantially.

But the first comment on that video puts the sale in perspective

 

[Singuy]

I know you’re joking, but there’s a lot of truth to this.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good. Elon recognized early on that using all of the best materials, having super fancy designs, taking the time to perfect everything you can, and splurging on what people think of traditionally as “luxury” can be the kiss of death for a fledgling automaker looking to move to higher volume.

Rivian made a similar mistake IMO in having too many products/variants in work before trying to ramp up its first product.

It’s the mistake that Lucid made early on, and I think Elon tried to warn Rawlinson. Time will tell if it spells the end of Lucid. (With Saudi backing, I suspect more money will just be pumped into it).

Seems to be the hill Rawlinson chooses to die on. I heard him say perfection is luxury many times on the call as if it's some kind of excuse for poor production ramp. You either choose perfection or scale, you don't have the luxury of getting both as a start up. You cannot burn money at the rate of choosing scale but produce at the rate of hand built cars focusing on perfection. If Lucid was burning 80M a quarter, slowly perfecting the build quality and producing a few hundred cars, then that's excusable. You can't burn 800M a Q but then personally examine the few hundred cars you pumped out while the rest of the production time was a lot of halting/down time/QC problems.