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All discussion of Lucid Motors
- Thread starter Right_Said_Fred
- Start date
Another Lucid Air recall: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V011-9593.PDF
HV coolant heater fails and doesn't provide cabin, or defrost, heat with no warning/notification to the driver. The recall will be to update the software to identify when the heater has failed and notify the driver and then replace it. (Apparently the same failure prone part was used in the Jaguar I-Pace and was recalled in July, but they replaced all of them rather than try to identify just the failed ones..)
HV coolant heater fails and doesn't provide cabin, or defrost, heat with no warning/notification to the driver. The recall will be to update the software to identify when the heater has failed and notify the driver and then replace it. (Apparently the same failure prone part was used in the Jaguar I-Pace and was recalled in July, but they replaced all of them rather than try to identify just the failed ones..)
Doggydogworld
Active Member
It's even less. They can't realistically operate with less than 2b of cash. Their target market is too financially savvy to buy that close to BK. That's probably hurting sales already.
The Saudis have no real ability to fix this. As I've said before, Toyota should buy them and make Lucid a Lexus sub-brand. Their sales and supply chain muscle could lift them to break-even in a reasonable time frame. Honda needs their technology even more, and might be able to pull it off.
I still think Mercedes should have bought Lucid 6-7 years ago during their original funding crunch. But it was still early days and Mercedes had plenty of time for in-house development. Japan today is much further behind.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
If that was the case – then why is the Lucid Air (and the Gravity) not better looking?... Also: I fail to see what it is that is "perfect" with their current ownership structure...
Ehhh, I don't know if either Japanese company looks at Lucid as a way forward. The return-on-investment argument is hard to support.
Outside of us EV-interested folks here, I don't think the Lucid brand has much recognition at all with the general public. Lucid have also been unable to ramp production -- so the degree to which savings could be realized from economies-of-scale are murky at best. Technology? Lucid has some pretty interesting aspects, but is it worth taking on all their debt?
If Lucid falls apart, I could comprehend a small bidding war for some of their patents and maybe for hiring some of their engineers & designers. But probably not much beyond that.
I don't know if that is true. If they had ramped production then they would have even more inventory on hand, as there appears to be inadequate demand. (They are already producing more than they sell.)
Yes, but whether it's due to limited demand or technical hurdles, the non-ramp up of production means they have not demonstrated what kind of economies-of-scale would result. I can see where any potential buyer would be concerned by this.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Lexus has the brand recognition. And the distribution channel. And they eliminate warranty/service fears.
They can't sell them. Heck, Rawlinson couldn't sell hand warmers to Eskimos. The tear downs don't show anything uniquely expensive, they just lack volume and supply chain clout. Both of which Toyota can provide.
Debt is 2b vs. 3.5b+ cash. Market cap is down to 6.5b, but the public only owns about 2b. I figure the Saudis just want out and would cut a deal for CVRs or something.
I'm afraid no one is going to buy Lucid until they are in chapter 11, 7 or whatever liquidates. Why buy their debt when the fire sale is coming without it? Why assume debt when you can buy the assets and knowledge for pennies on the dollar.
Now, I don't want this to happen. I don't hope it will happen. I just don't see how it is not going to happen. Many say the Saudis will back them no matter what. I give that a 50% chance and it's impossible for me to wrong.
My math said they would not survive past the end of 2024 (leaving a couple hundred million to pay lawyers to shut down). Let's see what happens.
Now, I don't want this to happen. I don't hope it will happen. I just don't see how it is not going to happen. Many say the Saudis will back them no matter what. I give that a 50% chance and it's impossible for me to wrong.
My math said they would not survive past the end of 2024 (leaving a couple hundred million to pay lawyers to shut down). Let's see what happens.
I agree. I'd love to see Lucid succeed and thrive, because I want the market to have plenty of competition and for consumers to have a lot of choices. But I don't think it's likely for reasons hit upon multiple times in this thread. Setting aside the debate over if/when Saudi patience will finally collapse, I don't see the enticement for any other buyer to swoop in prior to bankruptcy.
No offense to the fans of Lucid -- I know they exist. But for the target market -- luxury sedan and soon-to-be luxury SUV owners, I don't see any evidence the Lucid "brand" has significant consumer appeal or strength. And, again, Lucid have never reached the rate of production that could potentially provide real economies of scale that might lead to an all-important positive profit margin. This also likely means their one existing factory and the other one in the works probably has much less value than the average person might expect.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Sapphire came back to the drag strip. Got 9.072. Still not 8.9. Reaction time of Lucid driver is about a tenth slower than Plaid driver. Sapphire bone stock. Plaid minus rear seats and trim for 172 lbs weight reduction.
Sapphire beat Plaid in 1/4 mile by about a car length. Tesla Plaid Channel points it is $89k vs $249k. At $89k you don't get the good brakes, wheels capable of 200 mph, or FSD. Sapphire has forged wheels, carbon ceramic brakes, and Dream Drive Pro as standard. Plaid is a better value but Sapphire best showing is at a road course not a drag strip.
Another Lucid Air recall for loss of power while driving: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V076-6758.PDF
Fixed via an OTA software update.
It sort of sounds like it is caused by phantom braking and the user overriding the braking.
Fixed via an OTA software update.
It sort of sounds like it is caused by phantom braking and the user overriding the braking.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
And yet the cons of the Lucid are FAR worse than the Tesla, IMO. And the yoke is a moot point now since it’s an option. Should have compared the 2024 Tesla.
Sure hope it would win first place, when it is almost 3 times the cost of a Plaid. Who would pay that?
Selling 9000 cars or building 9000 cars? This is a disaster for Lucid. This is a disaster for their cash pile which is dwindling.
What’s worse is that if all things were equal, if the Air was exactly the same as the Model S, they’d have even less sales because what reason would there to be to have risk buying an Air when Lucid may not be around in 12 mo the to service it?
Lucid is going broke. Forget the car. Just look at the sales and the losses. It’s a train wreck in slow motion. They’re stuck on The tracks and the train of bankruptcy is barreling at them.
I agree...when Tesla first sold the S, they were also in a precarious position...but they had an inbuilt market of early adopters....that market is now mature and the niche for vastly expensive 1500 hp limousines is probably negligible...and if you did buy one, you aren’t the sort of guy to take out a multimeter when it goes wrong...and a defunct company is of no use to you
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