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Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
I'll take that as a compliment
I'll try to keep quiet now and wait for the original poster to update us on his progress.
You're a good sport.I'll take that as a compliment
I'll try to keep quiet now and wait for the original poster to update us on his progress.
But we'll never hear from him again.
Car accident or sudden heart failure when he becomes too threathening for the powers that be. Or in a best case scenario his forever silence is guaranteed by an offer he couldn't refuse.
Or his efforts fail, to the same result..
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Especially inside sole wear due to bow-leggedness.
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You need to harness the hydro power of the bathroom breaks too.
alternators and old ladies
good to see you guys have a sense of humor. I thought you would get a kick out of the old ladies thing. If I fail in my endeavor you will never know it. If I succeed however, you will not stop talking about it. I don't believe that I will fail. By the way the ladies don't get a bathroom break, they have to go on the go. There is no stopping on this road trip until we get to where we're going. I promise that I will keep you posted as I make progress.
good to see you guys have a sense of humor. I thought you would get a kick out of the old ladies thing. If I fail in my endeavor you will never know it. If I succeed however, you will not stop talking about it. I don't believe that I will fail. By the way the ladies don't get a bathroom break, they have to go on the go. There is no stopping on this road trip until we get to where we're going. I promise that I will keep you posted as I make progress.
Any competent electrical engineer will tell you the same @#$! thing we've been trying to get thru to you re: the laws of physics, law of conversation of energy and that there's no perpetual motion machine.
See my response earlier in the thread + that of many others.
alternators generators
In the 1070s a man on television would say beam me up mr. scott or mr. spock. I thought how cool would that be if you could talk to someone in another part of the world or out of it without a telephone wire. Taking a picture without film was inconceivable. How can you take pictures without film. However, in the 1990s I went to a computer trade show at the Javitt center and these two guy were displaying a card the size and shape of a credit card. I asked, what is it ? they said we call it flash memory. This card can hold 10 megabytes, and we're working on one that will hold 100 megabytes. I said that's fantastic. You can use one at 100 megabytes as ram memory, and then stack ten others together, instead of a hard drive and you would have a hell of a computer. At the time my very expensive hp computer had a wapping hard drive of 135 megabytes and 10 megs of ram. This was pretty good for a personal computer. years later someone came up with an Ipad that does what I suggested. I didn't have the technical skill to make an Ipad but I could see that with the flash memory that this could be done. I never said anything about perpetual motion. The only perpetual motion I know pf is this planet and other that keep going round and round in what seems for ever. Someone once said anything is easy once someone show you how. I don't understand why some here keep trying to knock down what I am doing without even knowing the how if it. I not asking the wrong questions you are, you just don't know it. My question is simple but it appears I'm asking it in the wrong place.
In the 1070s a man on television would say beam me up mr. scott or mr. spock. I thought how cool would that be if you could talk to someone in another part of the world or out of it without a telephone wire. Taking a picture without film was inconceivable. How can you take pictures without film. However, in the 1990s I went to a computer trade show at the Javitt center and these two guy were displaying a card the size and shape of a credit card. I asked, what is it ? they said we call it flash memory. This card can hold 10 megabytes, and we're working on one that will hold 100 megabytes. I said that's fantastic. You can use one at 100 megabytes as ram memory, and then stack ten others together, instead of a hard drive and you would have a hell of a computer. At the time my very expensive hp computer had a wapping hard drive of 135 megabytes and 10 megs of ram. This was pretty good for a personal computer. years later someone came up with an Ipad that does what I suggested. I didn't have the technical skill to make an Ipad but I could see that with the flash memory that this could be done. I never said anything about perpetual motion. The only perpetual motion I know pf is this planet and other that keep going round and round in what seems for ever. Someone once said anything is easy once someone show you how. I don't understand why some here keep trying to knock down what I am doing without even knowing the how if it. I not asking the wrong questions you are, you just don't know it. My question is simple but it appears I'm asking it in the wrong place.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
We've tried to answer you.
"How many electrical heaters do I need to heat my house in the winter?"
Obviously such a question can only be answered once the output of the radiators and the size and heating need of the house is known.
"How many electrical heaters do I need to heat my house in the winter?"
Obviously such a question can only be answered once the output of the radiators and the size and heating need of the house is known.
djp
Model 3 Performance
@jossamer - true, but none of those inventions broke the laws of physics.
This forum has an impressive wealth of knowledge, but we need more information to answer your question. The key is "what powers the alternators?".
If your answer is that the battery provides forward motion to the car, which powers the alternators, which then charge the battery - then you're referring to perpetual motion which is physically impossible, and there's no point continuing the thread.
If something else (like a gas engine) powers the alternators then your design is a range extended EV, similar to a Chevy Volt, Fiskar or BMW i8 - which we're happy to discuss.
This forum has an impressive wealth of knowledge, but we need more information to answer your question. The key is "what powers the alternators?".
If your answer is that the battery provides forward motion to the car, which powers the alternators, which then charge the battery - then you're referring to perpetual motion which is physically impossible, and there's no point continuing the thread.
If something else (like a gas engine) powers the alternators then your design is a range extended EV, similar to a Chevy Volt, Fiskar or BMW i8 - which we're happy to discuss.
Nope, those ideas were not "inconceivable", they were simply not possible with the existing technology. But given the theoretical challenge any competent electronics expert could have "conceived" the idea and listed the limitations of technology and hurdles that needed to be overcome. We can "conceive" of light sabers and hyperspace travel and can list the physical and technological limits preventing them. But, perpetual motion isn't "inconceivable", it is impossible and defies the laws of physics..it's not a technologic issue, it is a physical impossibility.
dhrivnak
Active Member
Jossamer please do us all a favor. Rather than start with a full sized car build a go kart with 2-4 alternators a small electric motor and some batteries. Either you will succeed and with the prototype get a patent and get very rich, and make fools us us. Or you may learn for much less cost; why this can never work.
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In fact you got your answer in the post immidiately following your initial question.
Now just let me type this really slow, so you and everybody else can understand.
Your question was: "hi, how many 160 amp alternators would it take to power (CHARGE) a tesla model s"
The assumptions are:
- you are talking about a 12V alternator capable of 160A
- powering (driving) a Model S at 60 mph uses 20 kW/h
- charging a Model S needs powersources capable of 3 kW (230V AC at 13A) up to 135 kW (400V DC at 340A)
The reasoning is:
- one of your alternators delivers 12 * 160 Watts = 2 kW
- we don't care what makes the alternators turn, they just turn
So your answer is:
+ to power a Model S while driving 60 mph, you need the output of at least 10 of your alternators to deliver the necessary 20 kW
+ to charge a parked Model S anything up from 2 alternators will suffice
Forget all the fuzz about converting AC to DC back to AC and the perpetuum mobile thing. Just build your contraption with either 10 or 2 of your 160 A alternators and let some competent electrical engineer install the correct wiring.
alternators generators
Hi PaulusdB, yours has been the most sensible and realistic statement I have heard so far. Thank you. I can build the car which will be in carbon fiber unibody, meaning no frame. When it come to electrical I'm at a loss. So I do intend to employ the help of several people with the know how to take care of that end. As well as the computer system that has to be installed to bring it all together.
Hi PaulusdB, yours has been the most sensible and realistic statement I have heard so far. Thank you. I can build the car which will be in carbon fiber unibody, meaning no frame. When it come to electrical I'm at a loss. So I do intend to employ the help of several people with the know how to take care of that end. As well as the computer system that has to be installed to bring it all together.
My best to you. The reason you're getting such a hard time here is that Tesla owners are subject to all kinds of perpetual-motion-machine conversations and you're feeling the brunt of it in this forum. The number of times I have had someone swear to me that - damn the first law of thermodynamics - we could put a fifth wheel attached to a generator, or a pinwheel driving a wind turbine, or generators on all four wheels, or a belt and a few alternators on the car that would be enough to power it, is quite staggering and tiring. Moreover, once you explain the first law of thermodynamics, many continue to insist it would be workable. As a result, when your idea is held in secrecy and you're describing the use of devices that others have described to us in our talks about Tesla, you're going to be branded as another one of "those perpetual motion machine people" until you clarify that you're not doing it with some more details.
I wish success to everyone trying to do something positive. If you do revolutionize transport by using a collection of alternators, keep us in mind.
The planets aren't in perpetual motion.
After a long time, they will drift further apart, the gravitational influence being reduced further each day. Like clockwork, it will eventually stop. And, like clockwork, it had a starting point, about 4.5 billion years ago.
The only true system that is believed unity (not even over-unity, the alternative name for perpetual motion) is the entire universe, as energy is constantly exchanged between forms, but it's never created or destroyed.
The thing is, one of the things science does is make assumptions. Things like, there losses in systems, energy must be conserved, etc. Engineers can then take these assumptions, which have been reasonably shown to be true, and make stuff with them. Things like cars, bicycles, and other machines.
If you go out somewhere and claim that something so fundamental as conservation of momentum is incorrect, or can be violated in certain circumstances, then you HAVE to supply evidence for why you think this is the case. You can demonstrate this with a machine. However, you should ask why no one else for over 400 years would have noticed your idea. Unless it revolves around some esoteric usage of physics, your idea has probably been tried, found not to work and put to rest.
Gee tom66 thanks for such encouraging words I needed that. however, who cares if the planets are perpetually in motion or not. The question here is alternators or generators not planet. you missed the question entirely.
By all means, try it! Not trying to stop an inventor's spirit. However, I don't want you to have unfulfilled expectations.
You were the one who brought up planets, not me. I think it's an important point because there is no known system in the universe which are over-unity. Only one system is 100% unity, which is the universe as a whole.
Over-unity, which is what you are describing, if it is possible (I doubt it is) will probably never come from some simple arrangement of magnets, motors, alternators or electro-mechanical systems. It will probably come from something like dark matter or quantum physics, maybe stealing energy from other universes. But that is complete speculation.
You were the one who brought up planets, not me. I think it's an important point because there is no known system in the universe which are over-unity. Only one system is 100% unity, which is the universe as a whole.
Over-unity, which is what you are describing, if it is possible (I doubt it is) will probably never come from some simple arrangement of magnets, motors, alternators or electro-mechanical systems. It will probably come from something like dark matter or quantum physics, maybe stealing energy from other universes. But that is complete speculation.
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