Amazed by model 3 LR supercharging speeds

[scaesare]

In my S, it shows both now -- instantaneous kW and longer duration mph.

OK cool... it's been a bit since I've bothered looking and thought I had read the display had had info removed. Perhaps it was voltage and current info.

 

[evp]

Anyone else getting a whopping 480+ miles an hour charge? What’s more impressive is that the charge rate doesn’t seem to taper until very late, after 90%. I charged from 12 rated miles until 295 in just 45 minutes!

Remember that rated range in a Model S is based on about 320Wh/mi, and Model 3 is about 260Wh/mi. So 480mi/hr in a Model 3 is 125kW, which would show up as 390mi/hr in a Model S, only a little faster than the typical starting rate at low charge.

Of course, the Model S starts to taper a LOT sooner than 90%, so a big win there. Also, with 310 miles range you might not need to charge more than 80% on road trips you you'd always be in the "sweet spot".

 

[Zoomit]

I've seen this battery density comment repeated before. What do you base it on?

If the answer is pack weight as compared to a S pack, are you accounting for all the other stuff in the mezzanine portion of the 3 pack that's not in an S pack?

Just simply that it’s lighter, with only ~2/3 the cell count, but takes up the same volume.

 

[Zoomit]

Of course, the Model S starts to taper a LOT sooner than 90%, so a big win there. Also, with 310 miles range you might not need to charge more than 80% on road trips you you'd always be in the "sweet spot".

Unless Tesla changed the charging profile, the Model 3 LR starts to taper just under 50% on Gen2 Superchargers.

 

[evp]

Unless Tesla changed the charging profile, the Model 3 LR starts to taper just under 50% on Gen2 Superchargers.

OK, where did that graph come from?

 

[scaesare]

Just simply that it’s lighter, with only ~2/3 the cell count, but takes up the same volume.

Did you see the second part of my post?:
"If the answer is pack weight as compared to a S pack, are you accounting for all the other stuff in the mezzanine portion of the 3 pack that's not in an S pack? "

 

[Zoomit]

OK, where did that graph come from?

It was based on a handful of posted charging sessions but it mimics this data on the BT37. Tesla Battery Charging Data from 801 Cars – About A Better Routeplanner

I need to update it to include a ramp from zero, but don't expect it to be nearly as limiting as ABRP predicts. Either way, they've seen nothing near max charging power at 90%.

 

[Zoomit]

Did you see the second part of my post?:
"If the answer is pack weight as compared to a S pack, are you accounting for all the other stuff in the mezzanine portion of the 3 pack that's not in an S pack? "

Sure did. I'm comparing 3LR to 3SR. I'd certainly expect the LR and SR packs to have the same stuff in the penthouse. So again, fewer cells in SR so less weight in the same volume = lower density than LR.

 

[TaoJones]

And I don't think we have seen yet the full capabilities of Model 3 charging with the next Supercharger version about to come online.

I bet the next Supercharger version will also come online with self plugging so you don;t even need to get out of the car.

As long as we get the Barry White music, I'm good.

 

[scaesare]

Sure did. I'm comparing 3LR to 3SR. I'd certainly expect the LR and SR packs to have the same stuff in the penthouse. So again, fewer cells in SR so less weight in the same volume = lower density than LR.

Ah, I misunderstood the comparison... I thought it was being compared to the S pack.

Sorry for the intrusion.

 

[MikeDog77]

Do you happen to remember how long it took to charge from 121 to 248 Miles? Based on your reported mph I would suspect 15-20 minutes, does that seem close to accurate?

Yes, I usually add about 100-150 Miles in around 15-20 minutes.

 

[North75]

Unless Tesla changed the charging profile, the Model 3 LR starts to taper just under 50% on Gen2 Superchargers.

View attachment 319071

This curve seems pretty accurate from what I’ve seen. Although I’ve gotten a full 120 kW below 50%.
Not quite sure what the OP is talking about claiming no taper until 90%.
Does Tesla ever make changes to the charging curves via firmware updates?

 

[SageBrush]

Not quite sure what the OP is talking about claiming no taper until 90%.

My guess is that he does not realize that the miles/hour is averaged over the session

 

[Muhammad]

My guess is that he does not realize that the miles/hour is averaged over the session

No I did not

That makes sense. I did notice the kW drop much earlier.

 

[CameronB]

Yup, charge rate (in kW) is pretty much the same for the 3 as S/X.
But the speed at which the Model 3 adds range (in MPH) is dependent on how efficient it is at taking those electrons and moving the car down the road. It is a more efficient car, so it adds charge faster when you look at the charge data in MPH.
The S is more efficient than the X, and will see higher charge speeds (in MPH). But the 3 crushes both of them.

For the first part that it's pretty much the same kW for S/X...Depends on the S, I guess ;-)

For me, I have never achieved higher than 94kW. Ever. Under any circumstances!

Even in 70 degree (F) air at a completely empty (no other cars) Supercharger at night (when the grid demand is lower) and arriving with various very low SOCs (talking about 5-15%). I have had these ideal circumstances multiple times - and at multiple Superchargers - and still I top out at 90kW...though once I got 94kW for like 5 minutes. Never have hit higher - ever. And of course, if the SC has other cars there, it's very hot or very cold, arrive with higher SOC...then it goes down from there of course. Maybe I am in the minority, but my car (75D) just does not do higher than 90kW.

The second part is true though. The first time I saw a Model 3 at a Supercharger (this was about a month or two after the initial 50 were delivered to select employees) and a Tesla employee plugged in about the same time I did. I subsequently talked to this employee and he let me get inside the car, etc. On that particular day, the Supercharger was about ⅔ full and I noted his screen said he was getting the same kW hour rate as I was on my S (exactly) and he had almost the same SOC (within a few percentage anyhow). So it was a great apples-to-apples comparison.

When I finished talking to him (and checking out his car!), which was maybe 15 minutes or so, I noted how many miles of range had been added (I forgot by now the number) since it was right there on his center screen. I went back to my car and noted that my car had added substantially less range miles compared to the Model 3 (LR).

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

The only real concern is long term frequent supercharging. The 90D has really negative charging rate only after a few supercharging session. Surprisingly the originally 85 doesn't have this problem. This leads me to believe the 80Kwh pack in the LR model 3 will hold up much better than the 90D pack over frequent supercharging session.

Still however if you do the math 120Kw into an 80Kwh pack is 1.5C so long term even with what ever chemistry optimization they do, this is much faster than any battery likes for frequent charging. I hope I am wrong but right now I only see the 100Kwh pack in the model s is the only long term viable solution to the supercharging neutering after frequent supercharging sessions.

1C is probably easily doable for frequent supercharging so that means 120KWh pack before the problem of neutering supercharging rate is to be eliminated on the 1st gen supercharging... until tesla release next gen supercharging.

 

[evp]

It was based on a handful of posted charging sessions but it mimics this data on the BT37. Tesla Battery Charging Data from 801 Cars – About A Better Routeplanner

I need to update it to include a ramp from zero, but don't expect it to be nearly as limiting as ABRP predicts. Either way, they've seen nothing near max charging power at 90%.

Very nice. So the Model 3 doesn't charge all the way to 90% at full rate, but OTOH it seems to do so up to 50% charge, whereas the S85 only gets to 20% at full rate (which matches my experience). The Model 3 will be a great road-trip car.