Another winter tire thread.

[m4eyyz]

Given the onslaught of Snowmageddon in the GTA area.. I'm just throwing in my 2 cents that X-Ice snow tires are terrible.

Picked them up in November - and this is probably the second fairly big snow storm in the East End.

First time I thought it was an anomaly.
But I just spent 15 minutes driving about 200'. I live on a fairly steep hill, but never encountered any problems with the Nokian line. Got to the point where traction control, regen and some other stuff through up errors on the screen.

So I'll be hunting for some Nokians asap.

Has anyone had luck with the X-Ice in heavy, wet, greasy snow?

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

The stock Tesla tires are champs (unless the rental company put winters on) - drove up to Skyloft on Sunday and saw a few SUVs struggle. AWD LR3 climbed it like a normal road.

 

[ben1628]

If you can find out who has Nokians Tires in GTA, please share.

 

[felixculpas]

Nokians typically sell out early in the season and then that's it given they are made in Finland. I picked up my RWD M3 in mid-November and there were none available then so I got X-Ice's. I have R2's on my SUV and they have been stellar + very long wearing, probably 100k km.

The R2's weren't all that great on wet surfaces but lots of bite on snow and ice. I think the X-Ice are a nicer fair weather winter tire and good in the wet but not as good on a day like today.

I just finished driving 65km from Toronto west-northwesterly and didn't have any issues but definitely had to be a lot more aware. Would have been interesting to do the drive again in R2 or R3's. My tire pressure was also at 42. Probably more grip if I had lowered that a bit.

I did not climb any really steep hills today. I would imagine you'd have to finesse it. Slow and steady. I did go up a steep windy road a few weeks ago in snow and was worried I'd have problems and then to make things worse, the lead car slows way down so you couldn't use any momentum but surprisingly, didn't have any problems.

I could see how you could easily get into difficulty though. There's not much margin for error.

Don't let the hill defeat you! Go back out later and try various techniques. Then you'll know what works best.

 

[m4eyyz]

yeah - we're on a big hill. So usually out front of our place is the make-it or break-it mark.... it's taking a lot of victims tonight.... but I'm amazed there isn't any sort of grip with them - especially since others are raving about them. Tesla told me that it will throw those types of errors if it's working too hard/overheating in these situations.
My tire pressure is 38 right now - i wonder if increasing might help? Would it increase the width of the sipes/treads?

 

[mswlogo]

If I was in the RWD I’d probably opt for Nokian’s. Maybe even the studded version. But you should expect more tire noise.

With AWD, just about any snow tire will work fine. With various trade offs in dry, wet, rolling resistance and tire noise. They should all get you through the snow on the AWD.

With the stock all seasons with RWD, make sure you opt for the lowest deductible on your car insurance.

 

[mswlogo]

yeah - we're on a big hill. So usually out front of our place is the make-it or break-it mark.... it's taking a lot of victims tonight.... but I'm amazed there isn't any sort of grip with them - especially since others are raving about them. Tesla told me that it will throw those types of errors if it's working too hard/overheating in these situations.
My tire pressure is 38 right now - i wonder if increasing might help? Would it increase the width of the sipes/treads?

Usually lower pressure will help grip in snow. The difference between 38 and 42 won’t matter much.

How new are the tires?

It’s really odd your getting errors though. That should not be happening. I wonder if that’s why it’s performing poorly. We’re the errors immediate?

It does use ABS to limit slippage.

 

[mswlogo]

They can’t be all wrong

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=W&VT=C

 

[m4eyyz]

Usually lower pressure will help grip in snow. The difference between 38 and 42 won’t matter much.

How new are the tires?

It’s really odd your getting errors though. That should not be happening. I wonder if that’s why it’s performing poorly. We’re the errors immediate?

It does use ABS to limit slippage.

Got the tires in November... so brand new.
The errors came after about 10 minutes of trying to get up the hill. A combination of chill mode/slipstart/ slow and steady/foot down "why aren't I going anywhere"/"i know there are 5 of you behind me who want to get up the hill... but I'm stuck" moments...

It's a weird sensation when you can't gauge what's happening when there is no engine noise

 

[felixculpas]

It's extremely frustrating when you are in the heat of the moment and losing traction on a hill with other cars behind you. It's not a situation that's conducive to using optimal technique but if you were, kudos to you.

The worst conditions I encountered today were likely from salt on the road having melted ice/snow only to have that re-freeze. That's challenging for many cars/tires. On residential roads with more snow, you can also encounter ice ruts from thaw/freeze periods and/or the use of salt while it's snowing.These can stop you in your tracks or bounce you around.

I used to have BFG 315/70R/17's that made winter driving fun in 4WD despite not being a winter tire. Nokian's might have made a difference for you but they can't perform miracles. Sounds like you had the right idea with chill mode etc.and tire pressure was good for the conditions. You could probably have lowered it to 30psi or even lower and tried that as well in a bind if you were that close to home and could re-inflate again.

There are no circumstances when overinflating tires will help you get more traction. That's why it's associated with slightly higher fuel economy.

While some winter tires lose their effectiveness fairly quick, the Nokians are also noted for keeping it almost right down to the quick.

Studded Nokians would be awesome but they are only legal in northern Ontario. Some feel that should be revisited given newer tire technologies.

"The Hakkapelita 8s are high-tech winter driving tools, with lightweight studs that are set in a multilayered tire casing. The base of the metal studs are set in a soft inner layer that acts as a shock absorber, cushioning the blow when the studs strike a hard surface. This helps the studs grip better, and reduces road damage." (Globe & Mail)

I'd seriously like to try these. They would be a good combo if you were comfortable doing a lot of tire changes yourself and using only in inclement periods. Not sure how likely you'd be to receive a fine in those scenarios. I would hope not as they are much safer. Though I'm getting ahead of myself as I will need to start thinking of summer wheels soon and possibly selling the MXM4's for 19" Pilot Sport 4S.

 

[m4eyyz]

It's extremely frustrating when you are in the heat of the moment and losing traction on a hill with other cars behind you. It's not a situation that's conducive to using optimal technique but if you were, kudos to you.

The worst conditions I encountered today were likely from salt on the road having melted ice/snow only to have that re-freeze. That's challenging for many cars/tires. On residential roads with more snow, you can also encounter ice ruts from thaw/freeze periods and/or the use of salt while it's snowing.These can stop you in your tracks or bounce you around.

I used to have BFG 315/70R/17's that made winter driving fun in 4WD despite not being a winter tire. Nokian's might have made a difference for you but they can't perform miracles. Sounds like you had the right idea with chill mode etc.and tire pressure was good for the conditions. You could probably have lowered it to 30psi or even lower and tried that as well in a bind if you were that close to home and could re-inflate again.

There are no circumstances when overinflating tires will help you get more traction. That's why it's associated with slightly higher fuel economy.

While some winter tires lose their effectiveness fairly quick, the Nokians are also noted for keeping it almost right down to the quick.

Studded Nokians would be awesome but they are only legal in northern Ontario. Some feel that should be revisited given newer tire technologies.

"The Hakkapelita 8s are high-tech winter driving tools, with lightweight studs that are set in a multilayered tire casing. The base of the metal studs are set in a soft inner layer that acts as a shock absorber, cushioning the blow when the studs strike a hard surface. This helps the studs grip better, and reduces road damage." (Globe & Mail)

I'd seriously like to try these. They would be a good combo if you were comfortable doing a lot of tire changes yourself and using only in inclement periods. Not sure how likely you'd be to receive a fine in those scenarios. I would hope not as they are much safer. Though I'm getting ahead of myself as I will need to start thinking of summer wheels soon and possibly selling the MXM4's for 19" Pilot Sport 4S.

Thanks for the great reply. Checking the plowto page we haven't seen a salter or plow in 12 hours so maybe a salt or plow would have made a difference. It's a 6% grade over 200m.

My biggest frustration is seeing others with these tires saying they're performing well.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

If I was in the RWD I’d probably opt for Nokian’s. Maybe even the studded version. But you should expect more tire noise.

Can't use studded tires in Ontario. So that's not an option for the OP. I *think* studded tires can't be used anywhere in Canada now.
an aside:
In the 60's our family moved from Winnipeg to Montreal. I remember watching my dad pull all of the studs from his winter tires with a pair of pliers. At that time, studs were okay in Manitoba (no salt used), but not in Quebec.

PS I have Nokian R3's and they are outstanding.....

 

[felixculpas]

In Ontario, studded winter tires are permitted between September 1st and May 31st for drivers in northern Ontario, which includes as Algoma, Cochrane, Kenora, Manitoulin, Nipissing, Parry Sound, Rainy River, Sudbury, Thunder Bay, and Temiskaming. Below these areas, the use of studded tires could incur a fine. For drivers from outside of Ontario, studded tires can be used while traveling in the province for up to a month. During this period, the only acceptable studs are Scandinavian-made lightweight studs.

I believe this has to be your ownership address so if not, likely rather difficult to do.

It might also have been that many vehicles prior were slipping and this caused the hill surface to become even slicker though of course doesn't account for why some others were not encountering the same degree of difficulty.

I haven't yet encountered it but I've read it reported they are at their worst in slushy conditions. This doesn't surprise me when you look at the tread. I think this will cause them to ride up on the slush and lose a ton of traction. Could that have been your situation?

The Ice-X are awesome on bare roads in the winter, even at high speeds and they seem great in snow despite being on an 18" wheel. They seem to hold their own on ice but I haven't had enough time with them to say. As you mention, they review quite well, usually being a very close 2nd to the Nokian H2/H3's which are more costly.

 

[m4eyyz]

In Ontario, studded winter tires are permitted between September 1st and May 31st for drivers in northern Ontario, which includes as Algoma, Cochrane, Kenora, Manitoulin, Nipissing, Parry Sound, Rainy River, Sudbury, Thunder Bay, and Temiskaming. Below these areas, the use of studded tires could incur a fine. For drivers from outside of Ontario, studded tires can be used while traveling in the province for up to a month. During this period, the only acceptable studs are Scandinavian-made lightweight studs.

I believe this has to be your ownership address so if not, likely rather difficult to do.

It might also have been that many vehicles prior were slipping and this caused the hill surface to become even slicker though of course doesn't account for why some others were not encountering the same degree of difficulty.

I haven't yet encountered it but I've read it reported they are at their worst in slushy conditions. This doesn't surprise me when you look at the tread. I think this will cause them to ride up on the slush and lose a ton of traction. Could that have been your situation?

The Ice-X are awesome on bare roads in the winter, even at high speeds and they seem great in snow despite being on an 18" wheel. They seem to hold their own on ice but I haven't had enough time with them to say. As you mention, they review quite well, usually being a very close 2nd to the Nokian H2/H3's which are more costly.

I was really surprised with how quiet they were for winter tires (the Ice-X), having come from the nokian (actually had Nokian WR's (i think) - the all season winter rated).

 

[bhzmark]

Another winter tire thread

Why? What was wrong with the other threads?

 

[dmd2005]

You want to keep your tires inflated to the recommended tire pressure and especially not under inflated for snow and ice. The smaller the contact patch the better for slick conditions like snow and ice. The tire compound and cells or sipes are suppose to pack snow in the grooves so that it sticks to the snow on the ground.

Best way to think about this is what sticks to snow best?

The answer is more snow, like packing a snowball together with your hands. Snow sticks to snow best so a proper winter tire has lots of soft sipes that hold snow on the tire to stick on the slick snow covered road surface.

Under inflating a tire to get out of sand or to go overlanding and crawling is a different situation. You are just making the traction worse in snow and ice when you have less air in your tires, so air up to recommended tire pressures for winter conditions and it is good practice to check pressures for optimal tread life and range.

If you can’t find Nokians, I’d suggest giving Blizzaks a try. I’ve had Blizzaks in the past and they’re great for snow and ice, but are super soft and the tread wears quickly.

 

[mswlogo]

Got the tires in November... so brand new.
The errors came after about 10 minutes of trying to get up the hill. A combination of chill mode/slipstart/ slow and steady/foot down "why aren't I going anywhere"/"i know there are 5 of you behind me who want to get up the hill... but I'm stuck" moments...

It's a weird sensation when you can't gauge what's happening when there is no engine noise

That’s interesting thought about no noise.

I mentioned how new the tire was because if they have less than 500 miles some folks say there is some release compound on the tires that can be a little slick.

We’re your prior Nokians on a RWD or AWD?

 

[mswlogo]

You want to keep your tires inflated to the recommended tire pressure and especially not under inflated for snow and ice. The smaller the contact patch the better for slick conditions like snow and ice. The tire compound and cells or sipes are suppose to pack snow in the grooves so that it sticks to the snow on the ground.

Best way to think about this is what sticks to snow best?

The answer is more snow, like packing a snowball together with your hands. Snow sticks to snow best so a proper winter tire has lots of soft sipes that hold snow on the tire to stick on the slick snow covered road surface.

Under inflating a tire to get out of sand or to go overlanding and crawling is a different situation. You are just making the traction worse in snow and ice when you have less air in your tires, so air up to recommended tire pressures for winter conditions and it is good practice to check pressures for optimal tread life and range.

If you can’t find Nokians, I’d suggest giving Blizzaks a try. I’ve had Blizzaks in the past and they’re great for snow and ice, but are super soft and the tread wears quickly.

“Greasy snow” doesn’t “pack”.

Not all Blizzaks are the same. Some are Performance Snows and similar to Sottozero.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Update, the rental has Michelin Primacy mxm4's on them. Pretty good winter tires

 

[Struja]

Given the onslaught of Snowmageddon in the GTA area.. I'm just throwing in my 2 cents that X-Ice snow tires are terrible.

Picked them up in November - and this is probably the second fairly big snow storm in the East End.

First time I thought it was an anomaly.
But I just spent 15 minutes driving about 200'. I live on a fairly steep hill, but never encountered any problems with the Nokian line. Got to the point where traction control, regen and some other stuff through up errors on the screen.

So I'll be hunting for some Nokians asap.

Has anyone had luck with the X-Ice in heavy, wet, greasy snow?

My experience has been the exact opposite. So, years and years (and years) ago, I had Nokian Hakka's on an old Honda Prelude and they were absolutely fantastic. A bit noisey but amazing. I think you wouldn't get too much argument that Nokian makes great winter tires. However, I have found that the X-Ice 3 are only slightly (ever so slightly) behind in winter performance. I have a 90D on 19" tires which is super heavy and the tires amaze me.

I came from Blizzak's and the X-Ice 3's out perform my Blizzak's by every metric. Better in snow, better in wet, more quiet and they seem to even be wearing slower and haven't resulted in HUGE loss of range (measuring when it hasn't been -17).

Overall, I have found these to be my favourite winter tires of all time (even over the Nokian's) because they are quiet.