Anxiously waiting an AWD review / videos

[Jedi2155]

Stop it! Stop it! Ahhhh why did I switch...(I actually told myself NOT to switch until at least Aug. 1st but I jumped the gun and now I'm paying for it). I was really a fan of the Bolt's 1 pedal driving idea and shame if the RWD really could not do it.

 

[TurnFast]

If they can increase regen in track mode, I wonder if some day they'll be able to offer "high" regen mode, for dual motor 3s in the future.

 

[Glamisduner]

Stop it! Stop it! Ahhhh why did I switch...(I actually told myself NOT to switch until at least Aug. 1st but I jumped the gun and now I'm paying for it). I was really a fan of the Bolt's 1 pedal driving idea and shame if the RWD really could not do it.

Yea I like the regen paddle on the bolt, and the 360 camera was nice too, and the fact it's a hatchback. But pretty much everything else on the teslais better minus maybe the paint and aero's

 

[gavine]

.

That said, as is the case with track mode, it is possible a later software update might increase the regen in the D variants. I do wonder if higher regen is bad for the battery given the recommended C rates. That may be why regen is the same across the variants because they share the same battery.

Regen is around 60kW max, right? Superchargers are 120kW so I don’t think higher regen would be too much for the battery.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Stop it! Stop it! Ahhhh why did I switch...(I actually told myself NOT to switch until at least Aug. 1st but I jumped the gun and now I'm paying for it). I was really a fan of the Bolt's 1 pedal driving idea and shame if the RWD really could not do it.

I'd say, from driving back to back, RWD Model 3 Normal w/no Creep (it's strongest) is on par with Bolt 'D', maybe a hair more. The number quoted for Performance's normal regen I saw in a review was 0.2g, which is close to on the nose for the Bolt 'L' IIRC. I drive exclusively in 'L', and drive near 1 pedal (cheat on with the paddle fair amount, use the foot an the brake after full stop because the wife feels better about me doing that), but still felt fairly at home win the Model 3. Only grabbed once for the brake paddle in the shortish test drive.

Obviously no paddle but paddle doesn't add that much on top and I mostly use it for canceling CC w/o foot brake, since Bolt lacks any sort of TACC. The trade off there is that the Tesla brakes are "real" friction brakes rather than the standard EV/hybrid mash-up of regen and friction brakes, that always feel goofy.

P.S. The Performance's "Track Mode" is supposed to crank regen up to a rather abrupt 0.3g. If you'd seen that, the idea is you let off mid-corner so the car stands on it's nose a bit, then accelerate again and the now lightened up backend slides a bit for oversteer. LOL

 

[jkirkwood001]

Hi all,

Thanks again for adding your info to the AWD/Performance tracker sheet - 499 orders!

We've updated the summary charts to include the most recent additions (auto-update issues because the data entry form & sheet were added after some data was already submitted).

Here's the status of collective AWD / Performance orders submitted as of today:

Orders across North America:

Orders across USA:

 

[ℬête Noire]

Regen is around 60kW max, right? Superchargers are 120kW so I don’t think higher regen would be too much for the battery.

I always wondered if on very long downhills, like you see in the Rockies for example, if the regen backed off some if it was above 50% SOC.

The Bolt's max regen ('L' + steering wheel paddle) is supposed to be somewhere around 65kW, so recharging faster than nearly every L3 CCS in North America.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Another summary:

• 5.8% of 499 orders recorded have received a VIN
• 4.6% of 499 orders recorded have a scheduled delivery date

 

[ℬête Noire]

Hi all,

Thanks again for adding your info to the AWD/Performance tracker sheet - 499 orders!

We've updated the summary charts to include the most recent additions (auto-update issues because the data entry form & sheet were added after some data was already submitted).

Ugg, still no Obsidian VINs reported. Or Silver, curiously.

Troy's overall list doesn't have any Obsidian VINs listed yet, either. (including for RWD orders)
.

 

[Jedi2155]

I'd say, from driving back to back, RWD Model 3 Normal w/no Creep (it's strongest) is on par with Bolt 'D', maybe a hair more. The number quoted for Performance's normal regen I saw in a review was 0.2g, which is close to on the nose for the Bolt 'L' IIRC. I drive exclusively in 'L', and drive near 1 pedal (cheat on with the paddle fair amount, use the foot an the brake after full stop because the wife feels better about me doing that), but still felt fairly at home win the Model 3. Only grabbed once for the brake paddle in the shortish test drive.

Obviously no paddle but paddle doesn't add that much on top and I mostly use it for canceling CC w/o foot brake, since Bolt lacks any sort of TACC. The trade off there is that the Tesla brakes are "real" friction brakes rather than the standard EV/hybrid mash-up of regen and friction brakes, that always feel goofy.

P.S. The Performance's "Track Mode" is supposed to crank regen up to a rather abrupt 0.3g. If you'd seen that, the idea is you let off mid-corner so the car stands on it's nose a bit, then accelerate again and the now lightened up backend slides a bit for oversteer. LOL

Having driven 2 GM EV's for the past 6 years, I much preferred the manual control of regen versus having a harder regen as stock. One thing that many new EV drivers make the mistake of is assuming that regen is good for efficiency....except its not always the case. The best case to only regen when you mean to stop and coasting otherwise because unnecessary regen is inefficient (energy is lost in any conversion). That is part of the reason I really liked the Bolt's paddle concept because it gives the driver more control on the regen without accidentally engaging the mechanical brakes or inadvertently engaging slightly when you just want to coast with your foot off the pedal.

If I were driving the Bolt, I'd drive in D (preferably with 0 regen), then engage regen as necessary to stop and combine it with a foot brake if needed maximum braking power. The way I drive my Spark/Volt was D, then engage L as necessary to bleed as much speed as posssible then engage the foot brakes.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Having driven 2 GM EV's for the past 6 years, I much preferred the manual control of regen versus having a harder regen as stock. One thing that many new EV drivers make the mistake of is assuming that regen is good for efficiency....except its not always the case. The best case to only regen when you mean to stop and coasting otherwise because unnecessary regen is inefficient (energy is lost in any conversion). That is part of the reason I really liked the Bolt's paddle concept because it gives the driver more control on the regen without accidentally engaging the mechanical brakes or inadvertently engaging slightly when you just want to coast with your foot off the pedal.

If I were driving the Bolt, I'd drive in D (preferably with 0 regen), then engage regen as necessary to stop and combine it with a foot brake if needed maximum braking power. The way I drive my Spark/Volt was D, then engage L as necessary to bleed as much speed as posssible then engage the foot brakes.

Sure the most electricity efficient regen is the regen you don't use. However heavily using the steering wheel paddle as with next to no regen otherwise is only "1 foot" in a semantic way, and I've found just using accelerator to modulate so there isn't heavy regen is fine if it isn't called for.

If steering wheel paddle was variable itself, in a good control scheme, I'd probably think better of it for heavier use. As it was just didn't care for it at all. Much prefer a more variable situation like you get with stronger regen whose' level is controlled by the accelerator pedal.

P.S. I highly suspect that TACC'll make it all go away in a lot of situations, anyway.

 

[gavine]

Bolt's paddle concept because it gives the driver more control on the regen

I disagree. You have 100% control of the regen amount on Tesla's accelerator pedal. If you want to coast, you can by simply pressing the pedal down a little which is more accurate than a steering wheel paddle. Also, there is zero regen associated with the brake pedal on Tesla.

 

[Scott7]

I personally despise that the Bolt requires the driver to use a third input method to achieve maximum regen and much prefer the decision that every other manufacturer has taken where you can control it with a single foot. That's great that some like the paddle, but it would be better to make it a setting. For me it's almost a deal breaker by itself.

That said, I wish Tesla had a "high" setting for regen vs the low/standard they offer now. I love how aggressively the Bolt can regen when maxed out.

Still hoping to see someone perform an instrumented regen test of non-P AWD vs RWD!

 

[ℬête Noire]

That said, I wish Tesla had a "high" setting for regen vs the low/standard they offer now. I love how aggressively the Bolt can regen when maxed out.

Tesla will be pushing the patch for that out shortly, it's in final stages of polish. The rub is that it starts at $64,000.

P.S. Track mode is actually a lot higher kW regen than the Bolt. I haven't seen the number yet, I probably should run the calcs, but estimating from the g number that was given in a 3rd party review (.3g) it should be near 100kW(!).

 

[Jedi2155]

I disagree. You have 100% control of the regen amount on Tesla's accelerator pedal. If you want to coast, you can by simply pressing the pedal down a little which is more accurate than a steering wheel paddle. Also, there is zero regen associated with the brake pedal on Tesla.

I wish they could allow the regen manually to be controlled with the dials on the steering wheel, but it appears I'm on the other end of the masses in terms of desire for manual regen control.

That is interesting about the brakes being completely manual. I'll definite learn more about the vehicle once I get it. I've only driven blended regen/braking vehicles so I hated the blending.

 

[SoCalGuy]

I wish they could allow the regen manually to be controlled with the dials on the steering wheel, but it appears I'm on the other end of the masses in terms of desire for manual regen control.

That is interesting about the brakes being completely manual. I'll definite learn more about the vehicle once I get it. I've only driven blended regen/braking vehicles so I hated the blending.

I have paddles on my car for regen (3 settings) and it's awesome. I've found in general that for flat city driving, the lowest regen setting gives me best fuel economy/range. That said, my brake pedal is a hybrid regen and friction (about halfway down the Brembos kick in and really stops).

What I like about the paddles (outside of the geeky racing toy factor) is that I can quickly change the grip of the regen if I'm going down a steep hill onto a flat road without having to fiddle with screen menus. It's awesome.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I've only driven blended regen/braking vehicles so I hated the blending.

Yes, and its day & night difference. These are not your father's hybrid brakes.

 

[EVDRVN]

Tesla could easily put a slider bad on the TS for the stronger regen mode to allow you to adjust it to a broader range for that mode. This makes sense and so much of the regen is wasted. In fact I drove one of the first Tesla prototype drives with more than 300kw of regen and you could panic stop from 70 with no brake contact until the last 1-2 MPH. Ut would be really nice to have a little more off pedal regen to access 4 sure.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Tesla could easily put a slider bad on the TS for the stronger regen mode to allow you to adjust it to a broader range for that mode. This makes sense and so much of the regen is wasted. In fact I drove one of the first Tesla prototype drives with more than 300kw of regen and you could panic stop from 70 with no brake contact until the last 1-2 MPH. Ut would be really nice to have a little more off pedal regen to access 4 sure.

LOL, that would eat tires like crazy. How much of a burst like that can the battery even take without ongoing deterioration?

The RWD undoubtably has lower regen because slowing down naturally rotates the vehicle taking weight off the only wheels that are doing the braking, so you're more limited in how much you can do without scuffing the rear tires (the ones that also get worn by acceleration). This of course changes for AWD.

Here's what the Performance Track Mode does, if it indeed pulls 0.3g at say 120kph (about 75mph).

m * g/2 * v = watts
1820kg * (.15 * 9.8m/s^2) * 60000m/3600s = watts
1820 * 1.47 * 33.3333 = 89180 = 89kW

I know sustained recharge is a bit different but still normally a Supercharger won't exceed that once your SOC rises past 50%-60%.

Keep in mind that part of the point of what Track Mode is going is taking enough weight off your rear wheels so that they can break loose a little to enable oversteer around corners.

 

[EVDRVN]

LOL, that would eat tires like crazy. How much of a burst like that can the battery even take without ongoing deterioration?

The RWD undoubtably has lower regen because slowing down naturally rotates the vehicle taking weight off the only wheels that are doing the braking, so you're more limited in how much you can do without scuffing the rear tires (the ones that also get worn by acceleration). This of course changes for AWD.

Here's what the Performance Track Mode does, if it indeed pulls 0.3g at say 120kph (about 75mph).

m * g/2 * v = watts
1820kg * (.15 * 9.8m/s^2) * 60000m/3600s = watts
1820 * 1.47 * 33.3333 = 89180 = 89kW

I know sustained recharge is a bit different but still normally a Supercharger won't exceed that once your SOC rises past 50%-60%.

Keep in mind that part of the point of what Track Mode is going is taking enough weight off your rear wheels so that they can break loose a little to enable oversteer around corners.

Your tires do not know the difference between regen braking or braking from the brake pads, there is no difference on brake wear. Adding extra regen is not an issue since you can draw high kw in the other direction. In addition the car will protect from over regen from heat, high SOC, etc. The total regen on a Tesla is not that high presently and there is room for more particularly at lower SOC. The reason it is likely generalized is to have similar regen over a borader SOC range for a consistent experience. The only constraint is the motors and their respective locations per model and software. Anyway, prob drifting OT a bit here but I see room for improvement.