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AP 3.0: Upgrade from AP 2.0/2.5.
- Thread starter puritan
- Start date
d21mike
Active Member
A lot on here talk about government regulations. I am personally not even worried about that. Until I can set in the front seat of my car hands free (but still responsible in every way) and the car will go everywhere I want it to go (with zero problems) then I do not care about what the government thinks. We are really a long way off before that happens. But when it does happen the big dollar companies (Google, Apple etc.) will simply pay off the politicians like everything else in government.
Tesla gets to "win" the FSD lawsuit presumably by saying it's available, but laws prevent it. However they dodge it, FSD is 5-10 years away, minimum. And I suspect it'll be a much more advanced hardware package than AP3.0 too. FFS haven't we all been confused by highway lane changes ourselves, while focusing intently on it? You think the car is going to know better by itself? It just learned how to take gentle curves better a few months ago for god's sake.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Essentially, Tesla hasn't decided yet on upgrades/pricing SPECIFICS for AP3.
My thoughts are it will be included for free for those who paid for FSD. We don't know how much of the decision is driven by legal considerations but it would be a PR nightmare if the out of pocket cost was substantial.
The additional FSD cost should pay for the actual hardware - not so much for the service center/mobile staff.
I bet Tesla finds some way of adding some other + option you can get at the same time you put in AP3 that will net them $1000-$2000 to cover the retrofit cost on top of hardware.
Like Atari 64 emulation on your Tesla.
My thoughts are it will be included for free for those who paid for FSD. We don't know how much of the decision is driven by legal considerations but it would be a PR nightmare if the out of pocket cost was substantial.
The additional FSD cost should pay for the actual hardware - not so much for the service center/mobile staff.
I bet Tesla finds some way of adding some other + option you can get at the same time you put in AP3 that will net them $1000-$2000 to cover the retrofit cost on top of hardware.
Like Atari 64 emulation on your Tesla.
You must have version 1.0 mine carry's me thru the airport while she adjust's my beer hat and laser's anyone who looks my way.
S100D
Member
I believe that AP 2.5 has color cameras. It will be interesting when we find out if the black and white cameras can read the red/yellow/green lights on a stoplight. Tesla has not mentioned having to upgrade cameras. If they need it, it would be easier to change cameras than replacing the computer behind the dash.
Unless the cost is quite large, it probably makes sense for Tesla to upgrade the hardware from 2.5 to 3.0 for free, and in fact, to REQUIRE it for more complex FSD features. Why should they effectively have 2 versions of the software, dealing with different resolutions, frame rates, and processing power, when they could just get everyone on the same version? But I don't think they can require the new hardware if they're going to charge to upgrade. So IMO, it will be a free upgrade.
According to the article on Electrek everyone with the FSD package or purchasing the FSD package will get the upgrade for free.
Everyone else will not.
If that is the case, I smell a law suit coming Tesla’s way.
According to their website all cars being ordered and delivered today are delivered with full FSD hardware capabilities... if the upgrade is not free for everyone, they are misleading customers and doing fake advertisement. Whether you have purchased FSD or not is irrelevant because the car should have the required hardware no matter what.
Am I wrong or have misunderstood something?
Everyone else will not.
If that is the case, I smell a law suit coming Tesla’s way.
According to their website all cars being ordered and delivered today are delivered with full FSD hardware capabilities... if the upgrade is not free for everyone, they are misleading customers and doing fake advertisement. Whether you have purchased FSD or not is irrelevant because the car should have the required hardware no matter what.
Am I wrong or have misunderstood something?
HankLloydRight
No Roads
If someone who only has EAP wants the FSD upgraded hardware, they can always pay for FSD, which under this scenario, would include the new hardware. Otherwise, if you have AP2.5 with EAP, you won't need the upgraded hardware.
You're going to sue because your car doesn't have the hardware required to run software you didn't buy? Good luck with that.
Cheburashka
Active Member
So it's like AP 1.0 speed limit feature?
Still not implemented in EAP yet... The notion of FSD "soon" is laughable, IMO.
It doesn’t matter if one has bought the software or not. They are as it is today falsely advertising their product by stating the car already today has the hardware installed to be FSD. It has no mention that purchasing the software is a prerequisite for this to be true.
So unless they upgrade all cars with the new chip they are not as of today delivering the product they are advertising.
I am only looking at this from a legal and marketing perspective,
The case is that when you purchase the car you purchase a set of hardware, and this hardware should be capable of doing what’s advertised. If one choose to use all features or not is irrelevant, and having to pay to unlock features has nothing to do with it. When paying for they feature you are paying for the software, because as they have stated, the car is already delivered with the capable hardware (which is no longer true).
So unless they upgrade all cars with the new chip they are not as of today delivering the product they are advertising.
I am only looking at this from a legal and marketing perspective,
The case is that when you purchase the car you purchase a set of hardware, and this hardware should be capable of doing what’s advertised. If one choose to use all features or not is irrelevant, and having to pay to unlock features has nothing to do with it. When paying for they feature you are paying for the software, because as they have stated, the car is already delivered with the capable hardware (which is no longer true).
It’s more a question of priority. Any car with fad will get the new computer. Likely all cars built late this year early next year will be distributed with the new hardware.
However only a fraction of the ap 2/2.5 cars have the fsd license. Of course they will get the hardware first, thier need is near term. Subsequent orders for fsd will resilt in a hw upgrade.
According to Tesla eap only owners do not need the new hardware as the software will/does run fine on the nvidia gpu.
There is valid speculation that the after sales cost of fsd went up to cover the cost of the new board, which is free with the sw license.
Make sense?
Completely frivolous to the point of being petty if you ask me!
If you ever buy FSD you’ll get the hardware.
I'm not a lawyer but as I understand it, in order to successfully sue you need to demonstrate a loss. If you haven't bought the FSD upgrade you have experienced no loss regardless of what computer is in the car.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Exactly. Good luck suing Tesla for something you didn't buy and doesn't affect EAP users at all. You have no damages or loss or any limit of function. The hardware in your car runs the software you bought. End of story.
You're going to spend 5x on an actual lawsuit than it would just to buy FSD and get the hardware for free.
Joe F
Disruption is hard.
The H/W installed on a AP 1.0 S/X is capable of FSD as Tesla has stated. Press the issue, and they'll turn it on, however due to the processing speed it will be limited to 15 MPH or less. Still self driving, and your useless suite will be thrown out. Happy now?
I completely agree with you, according to Tesla AP 3 is not needed. However, this is a legal principle, I can’t speak for laws in other countries, but in Norway, if a company advertise their product with certain features/specifications the product must be as advertised. If you are using all features or not is irrelevant. If the product fails to deliver what’s advertised the buyer can opt to have the issue fixed or demand a replacement, or a compensation can be provided. And this is by law.
In Norway Tesla lost a lawsuit exactly on these grounds previously. Reason being that the car was advertised with more horsepower then it actually delivers. The car was performing at the speed and acceleration as stated, so the amount of horsepower was “irrelevant” since this was the model s and has no options for pulling heaving things. Tesla lost, and had to compensate the customers because they where not getting the product that was advertised.
I agree it’s petty, but I am only stating that as it seems to me I would be surprised if someone does not take this to the courts as well.
My advice to Tesla is: remove the statement on their website stating that the car is delivered with all the necessary hardware that is needed for FSD.
Or at least add some kind of small print.
Also, do not advertise that FSD only requires a software update, since this is no longer true.
As for my part, I couldn’t care less, I don’t have FSD on my car, and the AP 2,5 I have in my car will not be outdated in the timeframe I intend to keep the car which is sometime in 2020... I bet even if I had FSD I wouldn’t get or need the new chip by then!
In Norway Tesla lost a lawsuit exactly on these grounds previously. Reason being that the car was advertised with more horsepower then it actually delivers. The car was performing at the speed and acceleration as stated, so the amount of horsepower was “irrelevant” since this was the model s and has no options for pulling heaving things. Tesla lost, and had to compensate the customers because they where not getting the product that was advertised.
I agree it’s petty, but I am only stating that as it seems to me I would be surprised if someone does not take this to the courts as well.
My advice to Tesla is: remove the statement on their website stating that the car is delivered with all the necessary hardware that is needed for FSD.
Or at least add some kind of small print.
Also, do not advertise that FSD only requires a software update, since this is no longer true.
As for my part, I couldn’t care less, I don’t have FSD on my car, and the AP 2,5 I have in my car will not be outdated in the timeframe I intend to keep the car which is sometime in 2020... I bet even if I had FSD I wouldn’t get or need the new chip by then!
From Tesla website: "Model X comes standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Enhanced Autopilot features today, and full self-driving capabilities in the future."
"From a marketing/legal standpoint", I don't see how "capable of providing" makes any promise of features you have not paid for.
If this was the case, Dodge, Chevy and Ford should give everyone remote start capabilities on all models that offer that option because the "capability" is there, its just a software switch to enable it?
Would not ever stand up in a court case, at least not in the US.
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