Apartment charger installation

[samywamy10]

Hi all,
I posted a few weeks ago about installing a charger in my apartment's basement at my car spot. I've sent them a couple of options (a dumb meter w/ Tesla charger and a smart meter) and now they've come back saying I need to setup a lease or licensing agreement for the section of the basement ceiling where I'll need to install conduit. This would require a lawyer to draft a contract for ($$$) and, importantly, needs 75% of all lot owners to agree by special resolution (which is about 40 people). Seems a bit ridiculous for an additional conduit that's running next to an existing conduit in a basement full of ceiling-mounted utilities.

Has anyone had any experience with this? Is this reasonable (in Victoria) or is there an easier way to go about this?

Cheers

 

[samywamy10]

Edit: sorry, by "them" I mean the Owners Corp.

 

[BCTS]

From my experience dealing with Owners Corporations the easiest solution might be purchasing a Free Standing House to live in instead

 

[cafz]

That does seem ridiculous.

Can't you deed the conduit to the owners corporation in exchange for allowing your cabling to stay in place?

 

[samywamy10]

What do you mean by deed the conduit? Do you have any examples I could point to to show the OC?

 

[strataguru]

You do realise, don't you, that the basement is common property (i.e., not yours to use as you see fit, as you wish) and that the OC is responsible for managing the common property. They can't just give away access to it on request. All owners are entitled to vote on it because it impacts on their use of the common property also. If the installation is important enough to you, you'll seek legal advice and go through the proper process. Otherwise, you could always install it without approval, which would then mean the OC could seek to have it removed, potentially at your cost. Not only that, you'd end up paying twice, because as an owner you would be contributing to the OC's costs for doing so - in addition to your own individual costs.

When you cut corners and look for 'easier answers', you generally run into trouble and incur a lot of cost.

 

[samywamy10]

Yeah, I'm well aware, not sure why you've come in with this condescending tone.

I've gotten 3 different quotes and have provided the OC with insurance and SWMS from the electrician I've chosen to do the installation. I've written up a long document detailing installation options and where the conduit will run including renderings and diagrams. The infrastructure to install a charger so it can be metered by the OC is over double the cost compared to what you'd pay for a house, which I'm happy to cover. Basically, I'm trying to do this the "right" way.

My issue isn't so much with the cost but rather even if we end up creating a lease agreement, I need 75% of owners (40 people) to agree to what is essentially a conduit run. If 75% of owners don't reply (not even say no) - I can't install the charger. The charger is on my property, and I'm offering to pay for the electricity use. So the only effect upon other owners is the extra conduit on the ceiling of the basement. If there is a way that avoids needing to go to a vote to all lot owners (as opposed to the elected committee, only 7 people) that'd be a lot easier to manage.

 

[paulp]

The common area is under the joint ownership of all owners, and as such you cannot just install something in or on it without approval. Yes a conduit is probably inconspicuous but the strata by-laws dont get into that. Its an all or nothing approach. Its unlikley the strata would win if you were forced into a court appeal, but not a lot of fun living there after you’ve gone down that path.
Its likely you will get 75% approval (my experience is its 75% of votes not owners) but you will have To make the presentation of the system as simple as possible. Maybe start bumping into some owners and ask them their thoughts on each metering type. They’ll support you if you do. Its the work you do before the vote that matters. Just ask any pollie!

I dont know your building, but can you connect to your existing power meter instead? (Usually on the ground floor with a cable path up and down). It might be more cable etc but it would remove the obvious fear element that most owners will have.

 

[paulp]

You do realise, don't you, that the basement is common property (i.e., not yours to use as you see fit, as you wish) and that the OC is responsible for managing the common property. They can't just give away access to it on request. All owners are entitled to vote on it because it impacts on their use of the common property also. If the installation is important enough to you, you'll seek legal advice and go through the proper process. Otherwise, you could always install it without approval, which would then mean the OC could seek to have it removed, potentially at your cost. Not only that, you'd end up paying twice, because as an owner you would be contributing to the OC's costs for doing so - in addition to your own individual costs.

When you cut corners and look for 'easier answers', you generally run into trouble and incur a lot of cost.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[moa999]

Key is to ensure you have support from the Chair, members of the OC. They will typically have sufficient proxies to ensure it passed.

I'd stray away from a lease, rather ask for an exclusive use right to use a small section of the garage roof for conduit, and wall for installing your charger.

Ideally you'd also get a bylaw passed so the OC could grant exclusive use rights to others in the future

I recall some draft wording floating around on the Facebook group, that you could probably edit without the need for a lawyer.

If you tag it onto an AGM, or someone else's EGM then it shouldn't cost much.

It's easiest if you can run back to your own power meter. Otherwise you also need some arrangement to have a sub-meter off the common feed and billing.

Try and avoid any questions of whether the building has enough power by saying you will only charge after say 9pm, as that's another complex rabbit hole.

 

[Maximillan]

I was the chair of a strata up until 3 months ago when i sold and moved. Strata is the lowest form of politics, and it attracts the kind the people who shouldn't be living in proximity of other people.

What they're suggesting sounds technically correct, but extraordinarily complex. moa999's advice is sound. I'd also be considering exploring whether getting a power outlet run back to my own meter would be easier for the EC to stomach.

The lowest form of politics.

 

[paulp]

Actually I think you would do better not to even mention its for an EV. You’ll get caught up with climate deniers and ev haters etc. Easiest path would be to install a power point behind your car connected to your meter. Come up with a good reason...vacuum cleaner or something. Install a 15A power point and make do with a mobile connector.

 

[PC__LoadLetter]

It’d be shortsighted to do this for yourself only, even if you think you can get 75% of the owners aboard.

Instead propose to run conduit from the cable riser & past everyone’s car space, at your own expense. Tell the owners that petrol cars may be hard to come by in 20 years and you’d hate for the basement to turn into a mismatched mess of conduit runs between now and then. Better to just get it over with once.

Then everyone can be grateful their flat is easier to sell & they have an option to get an EV of their own.

Conduit runs are cheap and easy. It’s practically DIY.

 

[samywamy10]

Its likely you will get 75% approval (my experience is its 75% of votes not owners) but you will have To make the presentation of the system as simple as possible. Maybe start bumping into some owners and ask them their thoughts on each metering type. They’ll support you if you do. Its the work you do before the vote that matters. Just ask any pollie!

I dont know your building, but can you connect to your existing power meter instead? (Usually on the ground floor with a cable path up and down). It might be more cable etc but it would remove the obvious fear element that most owners will have.

I have written and submitted a fairly detailed, but I hope easy to understand proposal. I've included photoshopped renderings of how the charger and conduit would look, as well as diagrams on the floor plan. I've also offered my phone number and email in case anyone has any questions.

It'd be even more complex to connect to my power meter. My meter is on Level 1 and my car space is on Basement 2, and there aren't any clear paths from the electrical cupboard down to the basement. I've suggested both a regular meter that anyone can read (but requires manual billing), as well as an Ocular IQ Commercial charger which will allow for billing back to the OC. Either option is fine for me, I guess it depends on what the OC can stomach. Although I am hoping if they have any concerns they can reach out to me and I can take them to the car space and run them through my thoughts.

I recall some draft wording floating around on the Facebook group, that you could probably edit without the need for a lawyer.

If you tag it onto an AGM, or someone else's EGM then it shouldn't cost much.

Would you be able to share the draft wording? That'd be amazing! Our next AGM isn't until March, I'm hoping this process doesn't take until then (I'm holding off ordering a M3 until I can get the charging siutation confirmed). If not that'd be the ideal forum.

The lowest form of politics.

, wish me luck. I've met a lot of the committee at our last AGM, kicking myself for not joining it myself.

It’d be shortsighted to do this for yourself only, even if you think you can get 75% of the owners aboard.

Instead propose to run conduit from the cable riser & past everyone’s car space, at your own expense. Tell the owners that petrol cars may be hard to come by in 20 years and you’d hate for the basement to turn into a mismatched mess of conduit runs between now and then. Better to just get it over with once.

Then everyone can be grateful their flat is easier to sell & they have an option to get an EV of their own.

Conduit runs are cheap and easy. It’s practically DIY.

I've offered to arrange installation for anyone else if they are interested. I figure the cost per install goes down if there are multiple lot owners installing, particularly if we can share an internet connection for smart metering.

 

[moa999]

See this link (not mine) for one example

example EV body corp bylaw

bit.ly

I believe that Jetcharge also can provide advice and wording.
Note also that any admin fees on metering can substantially increase the overall cost of power.
(Think I saw one example where the charge was $15/mth)

 

[samywamy10]

Thankyou. Yeah the smart meter option costs ~$200 year + 4G internet which is probably another ~$200 year. If some other owners get onboard at least these would be split..

 

[paulp]

It’d be shortsighted to do this for yourself only, even if you think you can get 75% of the owners aboard.

Instead propose to run conduit from the cable riser & past everyone’s car space, at your own expense. Tell the owners that petrol cars may be hard to come by in 20 years and you’d hate for the basement to turn into a mismatched mess of conduit runs between now and then. Better to just get it over with once.

Then everyone can be grateful their flat is easier to sell & they have an option to get an EV of their own.

Conduit runs are cheap and easy. It’s practically DIY.

It would be a very large cable to connect that many cars, but yes creating a master plan for everyone makes sense.

 

[moa999]

Also worth watching this recent YT video

Ultimately I hope the electricity networks get involved in this, and are able to come up with some way of adding it to your main bill and going through the normal meter reading process.

More about even larger apartments, where having 100 bits of conduit over a roof in say 10-20yrs just isn't going to work.

 

[samywamy10]

I've actually watched that whole video already! It was really informative. I reached out to Brent Clark but as I'm in Melbourne he recommended I speak to someone else here - who I learnt was more involved in larger scale installations (e.g. new buildings or installing a whole bunch of chargers). As it's just me (for now at least) I'm just managing it myself. I'd definitely reach out again if there's lots of interest

I found the video super useful around how to bill properly and getting internet to the basement.


I agree in an ideal world every car space would be provisioned for electric charging; we'd have some shared chargers in the guest spaces; we'd upgrade the distribution board; we'd get solar panels etc. - but at the moment I'm trying to keep it small scale so I can get my own charger installed before I propose spending tens of thousands of dollars on something I don't know their appetite for.

 

[paulp]

I've actually watched that whole video already! It was really informative. I reached out to Brent Clark but as I'm in Melbourne he recommended I speak to someone else here - who I learnt was more involved in larger scale installations (e.g. new buildings or installing a whole bunch of chargers). As it's just me (for now at least) I'm just managing it myself. I'd definitely reach out again if there's lots of interest

I found the video super useful around how to bill properly and getting internet to the basement.


I agree in an ideal world every car space would be provisioned for electric charging; we'd have some shared chargers in the guest spaces; we'd upgrade the distribution board; we'd get solar panels etc. - but at the moment I'm trying to keep it small scale so I can get my own charger installed before I propose spending tens of thousands of dollars on something I don't know their appetite for.

How old is your building?