Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Apple Co Founder: "FSD is a frightening, horrible experience".

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I'm not sure how you defend this Knightshade

I'm puzzled what you think I'm defending- exactly.


Here's a few of the comments I've already made, in this very thread.

" I certainly wouldn't pay 15k for it today unless/unit there's significant added features/better reliability."

"I'm not disagreeing that Elon has failed to hit any number of target dates/goals at all"

"Like I said earlier- dude who traded his 2012 Model S in for a 2016 Model S and bought FSD for $3000 and he thinks he got jacked out of $3000? Totally reasonable argument."
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC
I mean if someone hasn't been listening that's kinda on them.

By the same token, Elon also told us he has no idea when things he's never done before will actually be done-- at least all the way back in 2018 in the 60 minutes interview.



Sub in "FSD" or "reusable orbital booster" or any other "never been done before so I'm just guessing on dates" item and the same sentiment remains true.

One would be wise to read all his predictions with this understanding.
So in short, Elon realizes that when he makes predictions with accompanying timelines, they are quite often very wrong. Not even close. But yet he continues to do so and in some cases, double down on it.

In essence, he repeats the same behavior, but expects a different outcome.

I forget what that practice is called...repeating same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome..hmmm..what IS that called...
 
I forget what that practice is called...repeating same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome..hmmm..what IS that called...


I'd highly recommend anyone with enough free time to spend the next hour laughing go ahead and read the above statement- then look at the post history of the guy making it.

You'll thank me later.
 
I’ve heard so many people say that in different threads, so I assumed it was true. I recently watched that Tesla Autonomy Day video for fun and was floored to see that he straight up promised L5 by end of 2019.

Lots of wild promises were made, not goals or objectives. I can see why the Woz would call Elon out like that
Yes. And if I recall, it wasnt isolated to this event/statement. Elon has referenced getting to L5 by end of 2019 in another interview. I'll search for it because I know its out there in other places.

As it relates to the Autonomy day video/quote, the excuse makers on here (like KS) have previously said "well, I mean, he didnt clarify what he was saying "yes" to or "elon may have misunderstood the question when he said yes". The excuses for the false advertising and outright lying by ELlon, has been incredible from the sycophants.
 
Last edited:
“Elon Musk said it would drive itself across the country by the end of 2016,” Wozniak said



Wozniaks claim is, of course, false (or perhaps chronologically exaggerated... he does seem to exaggerate a lot about this stuff...none of which changes the fact Elon missed the actual date he intended to do this by a mile of course, but to some of us (not 2101Guy) facts matter)





Check his post history...and you'll understand...


Dude, I'm gonna have to start billing you, this is like the third irony meter you've broken in the last month....
 
Interesting article here from Vivek Wadhwa who describes a situation sounding quite similar to Woz's


Vivik Wadhwa said:
I was also one the first to get the Tesla Model S. When I saw this video of Enhanced Autopilot in 2016, I was told I'd need to upgrade to get Full Self-Driving. So I literally bought a new car. I sold my old one and I bought a new one. I wrote about that as well.

I started having doubts when my car first crashed into my garage while using Summon mode.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: ElectricIAC
Summon doesn’t preclude the operator from paying attention.
OK

1676221599060.png
 
  • Funny
Reactions: ElectricIAC
Even being a brave pioneer I only ever used the summon party trick in empty or well spaced parking lots.

I don’t have a problem admitting that the EAP+ iteration of “FSD” seemed to be more trustworthy than FSDb — Which is like a student driver complete with panic attacks.
 
....exactly how many Teslas did Woz buy in that time? FSD cost $3000 until early 2019, yet Woz, starting in 2016, has spent "tens of thousands" on it?

FSD cost way more than $3,000. You had to buy EAP and AP to get FSD.
If an option for a car is only available by buying the car, and the car is great, but the OPTION sucks, would you claim the buyer lost the entire cost of the car because the option wasn't good? Same principle here.

No, but when the car costs on the order of 4x as much as a comparably sized traditional ICE car, the effective cost of FSD is far, far more than the cost of the options package.

The only reasonable way to evaluate the true cost of FSD is to compare the cost of buying a vehicle with the cheapest options and FSD against a similar vehicle without FSD. A vehicle with similar passenger and cargo room would probably be something like a RAV4 or Nissan Rogue. Those start at around $30k new. So if you're comparing against a Model X, the question becomes whether FSD is worth ~$80–90k.

Even if you add in the cost of either company's automation that presumably gives comparable capabilities to Enhanced Autopilot by now, the price difference is still in the high double-digit thousands of dollars.

Arguing that the lower-tier AP packages provide value is moot when the cost of the base package and those add-ons is on the order of three times as expensive as comparable cars and add-on packages from other companies. The reason so many people were willing to pay that alarmingly high cost was because of the promise of FSD, and it makes little sense to pretend otherwise when talking about the price of FSD.

So no, the price of FSD is not $3k. A more reasonable estimate would be $50–80k, depending on the car model.
 
  • Informative
  • Disagree
Reactions: SO16 and 2101Guy
FSD cost way more than $3,000. You had to buy EAP and AP to get FSD.

So a couple things....

1) You couldn't buy "EAP and AP" you could only buy EAP OR AP-- you never had both stacking at the same time.

2) I explicitly called this out much earlier in the thread

3) You actually got something for the EAP money- a bunch of excellent, usable features. You paid 5k for that, back when FSD was another 3k. So, yes, you paid 3k to add FSD (which at the time did literally nothing to your very-useful 5k EAP purchase.




No, but when the car costs on the order of 4x as much as a comparably sized traditional ICE car, the effective cost of FSD is far, far more than the cost of the options package.

My Model 3 was actually cheaper than a comparable new vehicle from Lexus, BMW 3, Mercedes C, etc.

If you meant "It cost more than the cheapest Kia" that's... not very comparable.... so I'm unclear what point you're making here.



The only reasonable way to evaluate the true cost of FSD is to compare the cost of buying a vehicle with the cheapest options and FSD against a similar vehicle without FSD. A vehicle with similar passenger and cargo room would probably be something like a RAV4 or Nissan Rogue.

I wouldn't find either remotely comparable to my Model 3.

I listed several of the cars I was cross shopping at the time. All of them (pre FSD) cost MORE than the Tesla cost me, and what ADAS features they offered were utter garbage compared to EAP (mostly they still are 4+ years later-- let alone the ones on the much cheaper, not at all comparable, vehicles you cite)



Even if you add in the cost of either company's automation that presumably gives comparable capabilities to Enhanced Autopilot by now

Also wrong. They aren't remotely comparable.



So no, the price of FSD is not $3k. A more reasonable estimate would be $50–80k, depending on the car model.

Reasonable is exactly the opposite of the word describing the contents of your post here :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC
FSD cost way more than $3,000. You had to buy EAP and AP to get FSD.


No, but when the car costs on the order of 4x as much as a comparably sized traditional ICE car, the effective cost of FSD is far, far more than the cost of the options package.

The only reasonable way to evaluate the true cost of FSD is to compare the cost of buying a vehicle with the cheapest options and FSD against a similar vehicle without FSD. A vehicle with similar passenger and cargo room would probably be something like a RAV4 or Nissan Rogue. Those start at around $30k new. So if you're comparing against a Model X, the question becomes whether FSD is worth ~$80–90k.

Even if you add in the cost of either company's automation that presumably gives comparable capabilities to Enhanced Autopilot by now, the price difference is still in the high double-digit thousands of dollars.

Arguing that the lower-tier AP packages provide value is moot when the cost of the base package and those add-ons is on the order of three times as expensive as comparable cars and add-on packages from other companies. The reason so many people were willing to pay that alarmingly high cost was because of the promise of FSD, and it makes little sense to pretend otherwise when talking about the price of FSD.

So no, the price of FSD is not $3k. A more reasonable estimate would be $50–80k, depending on the car model.
The take rate of FSD is 19% for purchased vehicles.


Doesn’t look like that FSD is the main driver for these purchases to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC