Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC) won't be available on FSD v12?

[Spalding]

New article on Notateslaapp.com ( Tesla FSD Beta v12 Auto Parks, Completes U-Turns, But Removes Traffic-Aware Cruise Control Ability ) says that TACC won't be available on FSD v12 - or at least not initially. Article explains that you'll be able to use TACC only by going into a submenu to switch off FSD - which you can't do while driving.

For me, this is a huge reason not to download v12. I rarely use FSD now - and never when my wife is in the car (ahem) - because it's so twitchy. Too many pointless lane changes, balking on curves or in traffic, sudden slowdowns for no reason (which are better than old-style phantom braking, but still), misreading speed limit signs, etc. TACC has its own occasional hiccups, of course. Like many, I've often wished that an option for a simple, "dumb" cruise control was available. All that whining aside, taking away the option of falling back to TACC when FSD is acting up is a huge loss, and a good reason not to download or use v12.

No matter the rosy predictions, I think we all doubt seriously that v12 will be perfect right out of the box. In fact, it'll probably be a hot mess, at least for the first few sub-versions.

Or am I just being old and grumpy?

 

[KArnold]

Or am I just being old and grumpy?

Yes. But so am I.

That is disappointing. It appears the TACC functionality remains but now a lot more difficult to use. Makes me wonder if different profiles could be a workaround without stopping? Any v12 guys want to try? I can't think of any valid reason for this change.

That and the lack of manually increasing the speed when needed (granted, there is conflicting info on this point) is giving me thoughts of waiting for a more mature version before letting go of v11.

Both features, if true, are going the wrong direction. Why not spend resources on the basics like auto-wipers instead? Very short-sighted, IMHO.

 

[ATPMSD]

When I had FSD I used two profiles so I could switch on the fly from FSD to a non-FSD mode, it worked like a charm!

But as to this change, I have never seen a company so in love with its technology and care so little about its customers. Whomever is running the show over there is an idiot.

 

[Supcom]

New article on Notateslaapp.com ( Tesla FSD Beta v12 Auto Parks, Completes U-Turns, But Removes Traffic-Aware Cruise Control Ability ) says that TACC won't be available on FSD v12 - or at least not initially. Article explains that you'll be able to use TACC only by going into a submenu to switch off FSD - which you can't do while driving.

For me, this is a huge reason not to download v12. I rarely use FSD now - and never when my wife is in the car (ahem) - because it's so twitchy. Too many pointless lane changes, balking on curves or in traffic, sudden slowdowns for no reason (which are better than old-style phantom braking, but still), misreading speed limit signs, etc. TACC has its own occasional hiccups, of course. Like many, I've often wished that an option for a simple, "dumb" cruise control was available. All that whining aside, taking away the option of falling back to TACC when FSD is acting up is a huge loss, and a good reason not to download or use v12.

No matter the rosy predictions, I think we all doubt seriously that v12 will be perfect right out of the box. In fact, it'll probably be a hot mess, at least for the first few sub-versions.

Or am I just being old and grumpy?

Since you can easily disable the FSD that you rarely use, why hesitate to download it? Try it and you might find it to be improved to the point that you will want to use it. If not, then you can leave it disabled and continue to use TACC to your hearts content.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I suggest that you try your existing FSD v11, in full FSD mode but without a destination programmed. For me this is typically better than TACC. I would say that this method doesn't completely eliminate spurious lane changes and slowdowns, but it does noticeably reduce them.

I use this method in my daily drives to get through areas that I know are prone to unwanted lane changes and unnecessary slowdowns.

It's one of the things I will be trying early on when I get v12.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

I suggest that you try your existing FSD v11, in full FSD mode but without a destination programmed. For me this is typically better than TACC. I would say that this method doesn't completely eliminate spurious lane changes and slowdowns, but it does noticeably reduce them.

This is what I do when I want the benefit of FSDb on the highway (I have two profiles set so can switch between FSDb and EAP on the fly and in my environment, I notice a smoother, more confident, drive with FSDb.)

I currently have no trust in most features of FSDb but the highway lane-keep is useful. This allows me to get some benefit from the $$$$$ I spent, while being able to relax and not have to fight the impatient software that thinks it knows more than I do and is as focused on doing whatever it can to shave a second off the trip, to hell with everyone else on the road. I feel it reflects Elon's personality perfectly.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

The big issue with this change is that if you don't notice you've cancelled FSDb (wheel tug too strong or the software dumps you out because it feels it can't manage), you are no longer in TACC. Which means you may not realize the car is offering NO ADAS features whatsoever. The danger is that you'll assume the car will slow for traffic slowed down in front of you, as it would have with TACC and thus you could rear-end someone (especially given FSDb's tendency to slow far and brake harder than I would when I see a slowdown in front of me.)

This is a major change in the UI with FSDb/AP, that could have safety consequences. It will be interesting if it attracts the attention of the NHTSA. I would not be surprised that a future update reverses this design change. (New drivers won't have relearn behaviour but millions of existing drivers will.)

 

[JHCCAZ]

The big issue with this change is that if you don't notice you've cancelled FSDb (wheel tug too strong or the software dumps you out because it feels it can't manage), you are no longer in TACC. Which means you may not realize the car is offering NO ADAS features whatsoever. The danger is that you'll assume the car will slow for traffic slowed down in front of you, as it would have with TACC and thus you could rear-end someone (especially given FSDb's tendency to slow far and brake harder than I would when I see a slowdown in front of me.)

This is a major change in the UI with FSDb/AP, that could have safety consequences. It will be interesting if it attracts the attention of the NHTSA. I would not be surprised that a future update reverses this design change. (New drivers won't have relearn behaviour but millions of existing drivers will.)

You make a good point, but mitigated by the fact that most Tesla drivers use regen braking. So it becomes evident fairly quickly if you are completely out of Autopilot and out of TACC.

It's certainly not good if the car drops out of Autosteer into full manual and you don't realize it - but the sudden slow down will catch your attention. Of course no one likes unexpected slowdowns, (including anyone behind you), but at least it's an immediate signal to the Tesla driver.

If it just drops into TACC and you missed the chime, it won't give you much indication until sometime later when you realize it's not heading in the direction you expected. This has happened to me and the Mode Confusion is not very nice. I would say it's easier to get confused in this way, so I've actually considered going to the single-pull option for that reason. I guess this will be the only choice with v12.

 

[Max Spaghetti]

so I've actually considered going to the single-pull option for that reason. I guess this will be the only choice with v12.

It's just occurred to me that this is probably the reason they have introduced the single-pull option.

They are trying to gently urge us in this direction before it becomes a "thing".

 

[SidetrackedSue]

You make a good point, but mitigated by the fact that most Tesla drivers use regen braking. So it becomes evident fairly quickly if you are completely out of Autopilot and out of TACC.

It's certainly not good if the car drops out of Autosteer into full manual and you don't realize it - but the sudden slow down will catch your attention. Of course no one likes unexpected slowdowns, (including anyone behind you), but at least it's an immediate signal to the Tesla driver.

If it just drops into TACC and you missed the chime, it won't give you much indication until sometime later when you realize it's not heading in the direction you expected. This has happened to me and the Mode Confusion is not very nice. I would say it's easier to get confused in this way, so I've actually considered going to the single-pull option for that reason. I guess this will be the only choice with v12.

Depending on one's settings (and that requires more detailed knowledge of the car), regen doesn't always kick in. Whenever it doesn't there's a similar feeling of the "mode confusion" you mention, as in "WTF? the car not slowing down?" Thankfully, for me this happens within a few meters of leaving home so I can adjust (extreme cold or 100% SOC are the usual culprits.) Knowledge of one's car is key here as we can set the 'mimic regen when it isn't available' mode but you have to know it is there.

The problem with counting on regen to warn the driver is that in some circumstances, the stopped traffic in front might trick you into thinking (not-engaged) TACC is responding to that. Then it is just a question of if the regen will slow you in time since the car isn't actually slowing due to traffic. Then there are the drivers who don't have regen set to the level enough to notice instantly (I believe no-regen is no longer an option but I'm not sure since I love one pedal driving so have never changed my setting.)

I'm hoping NHTSA (or another government agency) will at some point require tesla drivers to take a test on the automation features and car settings in order to make sure that each driver understands what each thing can and cannot do. (And, as in the case of some Chinese ADAS, remove the features from that driver profile in the case of strike-outs until they take the test again.) This should come from tesla themselves but if they were truly interested in making sure the cars were driven properly, they would have done this already. Instead they are putting robots capable of killing accidentally due to programming weaknesses into the hands of untrained operators. As well, this should be by driver, not car, since not all drivers of a vehicle are aggressive a-holes. (I kept watching my safety score tank after my husband had driven the car and he isn't even an a-hole, just inattentive at times.)

 

[OxBrew]

Tesla could do a much better job of mode indicating, like a purple glowing halo around the entire edge of the screen for FSD, blue for AP and green for TACC. With giant words at the top for color blind folks.

Or a dozen other ways to make it SUPER obvious what mode you're in. A little tiny wheel at the top that turns blue, plus lane lines or tracks is obviously not enough, since so many of us have been confused by it.

 

[EricsY]

I use both TACC and FSD. I like both. There are times with high speed traffic in curvy areas, were I want to use TACC. Or sometimes I just don't want it to change lanes. But then are times when I am using TACC, am tired and turn on FSD. Anybody found a workaround? I tried changing the default to Autosteer then I can toggle, but it is not the same performance as FSD. Anybody know a good workaround? I spoke to the Tesla guy today and apparently there were safety issues with people accidentally turning on FSD, which is why they made the change.

 

[ATPMSD]

apparently there were safety issues with people accidentally turning on FSD, which is why they made the change.

Bullshit! All Tesla needs to do is make the icons more prominent.

To your question, you can create two profiles, one with FSD enabled and one without. You can switch profiles on the fly.

 

[Larry Hutchinson]

In anticipation of fsdb 12,3, I created a profile named no fsd, that has fsdb turned off and TACC and autosteer on. I do prefer using TACC and manual steering for most drives around town because FSDb is stressful and also I don’t want to bother entering a destination.

Although I have not tried switching profiles while driving, I did switch while at a stop light.

Also, I need to add that while I did get 12.3, I haven’t had a chance to use it.

 

[EricsY]

Bullshit! All Tesla needs to do is make the icons more prominent.

To your question, you can create two profiles, one with FSD enabled and one without. You can switch profiles on the fly.

Thanks a ton! I input a new driver profile, one with FSD and one without as you said. It works great. I would prefer Tesla fix it, but this is good enough for me.

 

[Paul 666]

I suggest that you try your existing FSD v11, in full FSD mode but without a destination programmed. For me this is typically better than TACC. I would say that this method doesn't completely eliminate spurious lane changes and slowdowns, but it does noticeably reduce them.

I use this method in my daily drives to get through areas that I know are prone to unwanted lane changes and unnecessary slowdowns.

It's one of the things I will be trying early on when I get v12.

I assume you guys know, clicking the right, scroll wheel to the left will allow you to easily use the minimize lane change for this drive.

 

[Paul 666]

New article on Notateslaapp.com ( Tesla FSD Beta v12 Auto Parks, Completes U-Turns, But Removes Traffic-Aware Cruise Control Ability ) says that TACC won't be available on FSD v12 - or at least not initially. Article explains that you'll be able to use TACC only by going into a submenu to switch off FSD - which you can't do while driving.

For me, this is a huge reason not to download v12. I rarely use FSD now - and never when my wife is in the car (ahem) - because it's so twitchy. Too many pointless lane changes, balking on curves or in traffic, sudden slowdowns for no reason (which are better than old-style phantom braking, but still), misreading speed limit signs, etc. TACC has its own occasional hiccups, of course. Like many, I've often wished that an option for a simple, "dumb" cruise control was available. All that whining aside, taking away the option of falling back to TACC when FSD is acting up is a huge loss, and a good reason not to download or use v12.

No matter the rosy predictions, I think we all doubt seriously that v12 will be perfect right out of the box. In fact, it'll probably be a hot mess, at least for the first few sub-versions.

Or am I just being old and grumpy?

One thing to think about. This version just started 15 months ago and already it blows version 11 out of the water and V11 took almost eight years to code the heuristics. V12 is a total rewrite, using only neural nets replacing over 300k lines of C++
While I am still a newbie, as I only got 12.3 yesterday, the two rather complicated drives I did today were flawless, infinitely smoother, and better than V 11

 

[JHCCAZ]

I assume you guys know, clicking the right, scroll wheel to the left will allow you to easily use the minimize lane change for this drive.

On v11, I set Minimal Lane Changes regularly, but I've never found that it does much to help. The car will still try to get around (perceived) slow traffic in my lane unless I scroll the speed knob well down to discourage that, and it will still change lanes "to follow route" even when the route really demands that it should stay put.

(I think the Minimal Lane Changes may have more of an effect on the freeway, but I have very little experience with that.)

v12 is much better but still occasionally exhi its some of the above-mentioned behavior. And I did confirm that FSD driving without a destination still works fine on v12. It's somewhat less of an advantage now because there are fewer problems from v12 in normal destination driving, but still comes in handy if you just want to stay on the current road with no drama.

 

[Larry Hutchinson]

Although I setup a no fsd profile, 12.3 works so well and with a good wife approval factor, I have not needed it. My recent drives have had a destination so I don’t know how well I would feel about my more typical non-destination drives.

Also, I think Elon is behind the forced single pull because he wants everyone to be using fsd.

 

[JB47394]

Also, I think Elon is behind the forced single pull because he wants everyone to be using fsd.

I believe it's just a safety consideration. You don't want your customers getting confused over which safety critical feature they're using. Tesla allows drivers to change up at the profile level, but they're ultimately pushing people to choose a feature and use it. It's always a single pull to activate, and that gives the driver their selected feature. Simple.

For drivers who use two profiles to switch back and forth, well, any confusion is on them.