Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Apple: Rumors of EV to Challenge Tesla or Buying Tesla

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I have heard of Magna Steyr and no OEM outsources more than 5% of their volume to them.

They handle overflow demand. And their entire capacity is spoken for at least for the next 7 years.

No OEM outsources significant amount of their final assembly.

Foxconn has zero experience manufacturing cars. They have similar experience in appliances and electronics but none in automotive and it will be a steep learning curve.

Allegedly, Apple wants to sell a premium car.

Made by Foxconn in Taiwan?

Valmet of Finland only has capacity of 70-100k cars and wants out of the car manufacturing business.

I am sure Apple can figure it out but it can't play dozen of manufactures against each other to get prices that allow only razor thin margins for the contract manufacturer.

Shipping cost per iPhone or iPad is a tiny amount relative to the total cost of the electronic device.

Shipping cost for an entire car from Asia to the North America or Europe is relatively large.

It would add at least 8-20% of the cost.
If Apple were to find manufacturing partner who will follow Apple process, it is certainly possible. Foxconn or Magna can easily setup a new plant in US for local markets ( with foxconn, a US manufacturing plant was rumored for Apple TV sets) or Apple can retool one of the existing plants if it can find one when needed. I don't think these are roadblocks.

What matters is if Apple finds a compelling reason to enter the market and has an offering per their standard. So far it looks like this investigation process has started.
 
Heh, yeah. Does get old.

To wdolson, let me point out that you have a somewhat narrow and distorted view of all the Apple has managed to do. For example, contrary to your "Firewire was their answer to USB", Apple actually was able to jump start Intel's USB by being first to integrate USB: they actually replaced the legacy ports with USB with the introduction of the iMac. A bold move. Until they did, USB was stuck in a chicken-and-egg situation. (And USB peripherals followed quickly after.) This is something that was a common problem on the Windows side of the world as the system software and hardware were developed by many different companies with different priorities. Another example of this is Apple's introduction of WiFi to the first iBook: first wireless networking in a laptop! Long before that, Apple had integrated easy wired networking and incredibly easy file-sharing. It was a long road for DOS/Windows to build up their abilities – and always frustrating to have to work with.

Anyway, a little different perspective than you here and I shouldn't let myself get drawn in on an Apple debate, but the Cook vs. Jobs thing and Apple is doomed thing always sounds so ridiculous. You've heard bad "reviews" about the Watch?? Don't you remember the early comments with the introduction of the iPod, iPhone or iPad? And besides, what is early success? Outselling all other "smart watches" in the first few weeks? (Still not interested in wearing anybody's watch myself but I'm certainly not going to predict its demise!)

As for an Apple car? It sounds like a crazy fit, but then I was initially surprised and confused by the introduction of the iPod too. (After owning one for a while though I started thinking... wait... what if this device eventually evolved into a general, super-mobile, personal computing device?!) Knowing the culture at Apple and their continued desire to strive to make a positive impact on the world, it's possible for me to imagine Cook and others thinking, like Elon, what better way to help make the world a better place (by getting us off of burning oil and screwing with our climate).

USB/Firewire may not have been the best example. USB 1 is much slower than USB 2. Firewire is still a bit faster than USB 2, but not to a great extent. I did a short stint at Microsoft doing USB 2 design before there were many USB products out there. (I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft, the Netscape court battle was going on at the time and I had to hold my tongue when people discussed it around me.) Few computers had them at the time, but the high end motherboard makers for Windows started introducing USB ports about the same time Apple did. I don't know the exact timeline.

I have mixed feelings about Apple products. As far as reliability goes, their products are among the most reliable available. My SO is a huge Apple fan and has been a Mac user since they were introduced. She had one of the first series of Macs and the first Apple laser jet printer. I have always struggled with Apple interfaces even though I'm a software engineer. To my mind, their interfaces are frequently very unintuitive whereas I figured out DOS and Windows very easily. UNIX wasn't all that tough either. I've come to realize it has something to do with the way people naturally think (not their intelligence, the way they process information). Apple interfaces are very intuitive to certain people and don't make much sense to others. Though I have managed to get some Apple diehards to admit that some of the aps that drive me around the bend like iTunes aggravate them too, they are just more willing to forgive Apple for some applications being horrible and overall have a good user experience while sitting at a Mac is like trying to read Farsi.

I got an iPhone because I found Android unstable. We both had Android phones and various features would just quit and you couldn't get them back. The camera on my phone quit after a few months, I only used it a couple of times before it quit. After a year it quit playing anything except the ringtone. My SO's Android phone always had intermittent ringing. Sometimes it would ring and sometimes it wouldn't. She had other things just up and quit too (I forget what at the moment). We both got iPhones and while the iPhone was a royal pain in the backside to setup, once configured, it hasn't had any problems in a year of use. And I bought a used one. I would give the iPhone an F for interoperability with desktop computers, especially Windows and an F for ease of setting up, but an A for long term reliability. The Android was almost the complete opposite.

I also have an iPad and a Kindle Fire which runs Android. For reading or other media, I think the Kindle is better. It also works better connected to a Windows machine, it just looks like a thumb drive. For actual portable computing the iPad is definitely superior.

As for the demise of Apple, if it does happen, it will be a long time off. Microsoft peaked around the time of Windows XP or so and they have been chasing the buzz they got for Windows 95 for 20 years now, but they are still a major market force and probably will be for some time to come. Microsoft had some real turkeys with Win Vista and 8, but what has really started their slide was the growth of portable devices. Apple got into the portable device market at the right time with the right product and has profited from it. As long as Apple doesn't really screw up the iPhone, they will likely remain a strong competitor until something else comes along that kills cell phones, or radically changes the market in some fundamental way. I don't know what that will look like, but it's the nature of technology.

It's also too early to tell what the demise of Steve Jobs will do the company over the long haul. I sense a possible lost step with the iWatch. With other Apple product introductions, the iWatch was the first one where I asked myself, "who would really want that?" With all their other cutting edge products, even if I didn't want one, I could see the usefulness of them for some people. They are a big enough market leader that can survive a few weak products here and there. I'll reserve judgement until they roll out more products and see if they have lost their way or not. I am considering the possibility that they may have peaked though. The backside of their existence is likely to be a long one, but my only point is they may have peaked.
 
Not to get too far off topic, but I wouldn't count the watch out yet. I just don't think it will ever sell remotely in numbers what the iPad or iPhone did. I'm considered "Apple Faithful" and I don't see much use for it. I wouldn't say I talked down about it, but my friends were rather shocked I showed such little interest in it, considering I own most every other Apple product, and have for 30 years. Regardless, 2 of my not-so-Apple-ly friends got the watches and f**king LOVE them. They are a couple and constantly are sending heartbeats to each other and all the other crap you see in the commercials. The guy I get, as he was kinda tech minded at least but 3 months in and the girl is also still in love with the damn thing. So, I learned that just because something doesn't necessarily appeal to you, don't hate on it too much. I'm pretty much the exact target audience for the watch and I don't see the point. My friends don't read Apple blogs daily and aren't investors and they are spreading the gospel about it more then anyone else I know. I'd say out of the roughly 30 people I know who bought it, 20 are in love with it, 5 are so-so, and 5 returned it. I'll admit I thought WAY more would have returned it or been so-so. Should also note, all of them only bought the sport model. Haven't seen a Steel or Gold one outside of the Apple Store.

Even selling in the small numbers it looks to be doing, it's still outselling every other smart watch by a factor of 10-1.

/edit I also don't think Apple cares if it doesn't sell in huge numbers... Apple isn't selling just one product in a sandbox, they are selling the ecosystem. Everything works together, and the more parts of the ecosystem there are, the greater value (and lock-in factor) there is in the whole shabang. Same for Apple Music. They can lose money on it, but it helps the overall ecosystem, and helps to sell more cash-cow iPhones.
 
Last edited:
It's supply constrained. Not demand-constrained. It's exceeded their own wildest short term forecasts.

I'd say it was 90% supply constrained for the first 2 months. Now they are everywhere. Even Best Buy is about to start selling them. I've read they are selling around 43,000 a week*, which is tiny by Apple standards. Still, 43,000 a week blows away every other smart watch.

First 2 week sales were crazy though, over 2 million.*

*Guestimates based on reports online from people who get paid to figure this out. Apple has not released hard numbers.
 
And back to the thread topic...
At first I was skeptical of the initial reports that Apple was considering building an EV. But with multiple reports of Apple hiring auto industry people, and Cook's 2014 visit to BMW in Germany, I am now convinced that Apple is at least seriously considering getting into the EV business. They could contract manufacture in China but I suspect they will initially do manufacturing in the US. Apple has so much money in the bank that they can do whatever they want, and whatever Apple does will make Goggle's attempts look amateurish.
An Apple EV would be great news for Tesla. With the launch of an Apple Car suddenly everyone will be talking about EVs. Apple is the world's most valuable brand. The World's Most Valuable Brands List - Forbes
Tesla has already started to revolutionize the auto industry. An Apple Car would accelerate the process dramatically. I hope Apple is able to launch a car before 2020. It may not be better than what Tesla is building by then, but it will be a worthy competitor.
 
And back to the thread topic...
At first I was skeptical of the initial reports that Apple was considering building an EV. But with multiple reports of Apple hiring auto industry people, and Cook's 2014 visit to BMW in Germany, I am now convinced that Apple is at least seriously considering getting into the EV business. They could contract manufacture in China but I suspect they will initially do manufacturing in the US. Apple has so much money in the bank that they can do whatever they want, and whatever Apple does will make Goggle's attempts look amateurish.
An Apple EV would be great news for Tesla. With the launch of an Apple Car suddenly everyone will be talking about EVs. Apple is the world's most valuable brand. The World's Most Valuable Brands List - Forbes
Tesla has already started to revolutionize the auto industry. An Apple Car would accelerate the process dramatically. I hope Apple is able to launch a car before 2020. It may not be better than what Tesla is building by then, but it will be a worthy competitor.

And maybe Tesla can sell them a Gigafactory as a Product/Service
 
**** Full Disclosure- I'm a current stockholder of TM ****

The Markets would love to see Apple purchase TM but outside of money, a proven distribution platform and a solid corporate structure what can Apple offer TM? Legitimacy???? Tesla Motors has been able to overcome great odds and managed to offer a true world beating product. This product is changing long entrenched ideologies, laid forth new schools of thought and has limitless potential.

A marriage with Apple may not ensure mass Tesla Motors product purchasing or even that Apple will continue to keep TM on the bleeding edge in its segment. I say that Apple may not ready to take a bite out of that apple because TM may not have proven it can deliver on the Model 3 (Sedan/CUV) or the Roadster. Simply, Apple may not be up to the rigors of the auto industry. In the event that Apple becomes the parent company, I'm all in for it may be the final nail in the coffin for ICE vehicles.
 
One reason Apple maybe thinking about ties with BMW is their overseas cash of more than $180B. Apple will want to invest that money or return it to shareholders. Not sure what will happen but BMW talk certainly is interesting.
 
We should watch to see who buys the Mitsubishi factory that is now on sale.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150724/OEM01/150729919/mitsubishi-to-end-u-s-vehicle-output-shutter-factory-by-nov-if

Mitsubishi to end U.S. vehicle output, shutter factory by Nov. if there's no buyer

TOKYO -- Mitsubishi Motors Corp. will shutter its only North American assembly plant by November if it can’t find a buyer for the factory, and will soon start shipping tooling back to Japan.

Mitsubishi has several candidates, including at least one Detroit manufacturer, but no solid leads, a person familiar with the matter said. The plant would provide an excellent quick fix for carmakers seeking an incremental capacity increase quickly at low cost, the source said.

“Our factory is very cheap and has small capacity,” he said.
 
Documents confirm Apple is building self-driving car | Technology | The Guardian
Last paragraph had this mention of Tesla
However, when engineers from Tesla Motors tried to tour GoMentum Station in April, armed soldiers at the base refused entry to foreign-born workers and a manager who would not divulge his social security number. “At this point, I’ll retract our interest in this test site until the process is worked out,” he huffed in an email to GoMentum Station’s Jack Hall.
 
If I'm reading this correctly, it doesn't confirm Apple is building a self driving car. All it confirms is that Apple wanted to reserve time at a facility being used for self driving cars. It's far more likely Project Titan either has something to do with CarPlay, or that Apple is working with other automobile manufacturers on experimental _________, that can be used in _________ for other automobile manufacturers.
 
Last edited:
Why is it so hard to conceive of Apple building their own car? This is the company that came out with a phone and completely blindsided an entire industry. At the time, no one saw that coming.

In particular, Apple is building a driverless car. Only a driverless car. The challenge of inventing what a car with no driver should look like and how it should function is right up Apple's alley. Their designers are no doubt in seventh heaven trying to figure it out.

Yes, the car will be electric, but that won't be the reason to buy it. Their car will be the best designed driverless car in existence, trust me. It may not have the best electric drivetrain, the best batteries (Tesla will likely have those, unless they buy one or more of these things from Tesla, which is very possible), but it will be the most appealing driverless car. Apple has the best designers in the world. When they focus on a product, it will come out insanely great.
 
Why is it so hard to conceive of Apple building their own car? This is the company that came out with a phone and completely blindsided an entire industry. At the time, no one saw that coming.

In particular, Apple is building a driverless car. Only a driverless car. The challenge of inventing what a car with no driver should look like and how it should function is right up Apple's alley. Their designers are no doubt in seventh heaven trying to figure it out.

Yes, the car will be electric, but that won't be the reason to buy it. Their car will be the best designed driverless car in existence, trust me. It may not have the best electric drivetrain, the best batteries (Tesla will likely have those, unless they buy one or more of these things from Tesla, which is very possible), but it will be the most appealing driverless car. Apple has the best designers in the world. When they focus on a product, it will come out insanely great.
Apple's driverless car being so good, I don't know... I'll believe it when I see it.